Your Idea of Beauty Is???

[Rebel Queen]

So tell me whats your idea of Beauty? I'm looking for honesty which is so rare now adays. I am curious as to what attracts you to a woman/ man physically,mentally, spiritually. I am curious because i know so many brothers and sisters who are quick to see a man/ woman and immediately, " damn she fine" or damn he fine"...Well tell me what makes him/ her so fine. Is the physical most important or is it something more? Is beauty really skin deep or are you fixiated on outer beauty? Would you be willing to be with someone who u would consider less attractive in the past once u get to know him/her or does he/she have to meet those "standards"of beauty before hand? So tell me whats beautiful to you about the opposite sex?

[Amatsyah Tel Dan]

The Beauty of Black
Can Pretty Faces Change the Face of Africa?
By Marilyn Kimani

Iman was 'discovered' by a white man on a university campus in Mogadishu; a thoroughly unsurprising fact. Of course he found her stunning; she didn't resemble the vast majority of Africans south of the Sahara. Her beauty never moved me. It seemed so tiresomely familiar. She looked like a thousand other models I'd seen before on the pages of Vogue, or on CNN's Style with Elsa Klench. Except she was African. And in the early 80's, when Iman blinked her eyes under the camera lights, her Africaness was a huge, exotic deal. But she did nothing to change the face of modeling.

Naomi Campbell almost did, with her slanted eyes and full lips. When Naomi strutted down the catwalk, there was no mistaking her blackness. Cocoa coloured, with super long legs and a butt that said 'motherland,' Campbell's image shook up the fashion world. Despite this, there is no denying that Campbell is ultra thin, with a ballerina frame. In the big picture, she has done little to challenge the notions of Western beauty, that many people, Africans included, have begun to assume should be universal.

Naomi's role in the fashion world has been that of the exotic. She has captured the attention of Europe and America because of her difference from the norm that is white. Pictures of Naomi have an erotic appeal that is unrivalled by other supermodels , even in the highly sexualised world of fashion photography.

More often than not Campbell is pictured in almost nothing, lips apart like a high-class porn star. She bares her breasts regularly, brown nipples beckoning far more often than the pink-tipped buds of her white colleagues. Naomi has become a super-model because she has allowed herself to be the exotic other. But, like Iman, she has never been so different as to be offensive. Her nose is not too wide, her lips not so full that they speak of Africa, and her body, long and lean, unlike many of her sisters on the continent, fits easily into Calvin Klein jeans.

Only Alec Wek, with her gangly, awkward body, round face, decidedly African nose, deep set eyes, and jet black skin, has managed to make people sit up and question what beauty really is. More importantly for us, she has started a debate on African beauty.

When Wek came onto the haute couture scene in 1998, her pictures were greeted by a chorus of boos from Africans around the world. The complaint? According to Greta Motaung, a fashion consultant in Johannesburg, "She just isn't cute. That's it, I'm not one of those black people who are into white images, so there is no deep, internal self-hatred here. The woman is plain ugly."



Ralph Maina, a fashion designer in Nairobi, agrees, "White people decided that this woman will become famous. They looked at her blackness, and felt it would be fashionable to build a cult of fascination around her. So they did. Whether anyone really thinks she is beautiful, is another story."

But the experts tell us that Motaung and Maina cannot claim a universal beauty. What is beautiful in one culture is often seen as quite unattractive in another. Africans should know this better than anyone else. For years, the images projected in Western media have reflected notions of beauty that have little to do with this continent. A few darker faces have made their way onto covers; Tyra Banks, Naomi Campbell, Beverly Peele and Iman being the most notable in the last twenty years. However, the standard aesthetic of long slippery hair, a straight nose and high cheekbones has not changed.

The Cindy Crawfords and Kate Mosses will always represent the standard against which all others are judged. So it comes as no surprise that more often than not, black models on the catwalk look as though they are white women who have been dipped in bronze.

Many say that in this era of talk about the African Renaissance, Africans should stop focusing so much on what happens on the runways of Paris, London and New York, and start focussing on what happens here at home. After all, neither Naomi Campbell, Tyra Banks or Beverly Peele are African, and Iman has effectively left the scene.

A focus inward reveals that the last decade of the 20th century saw a burgeoning number of beauty contests in Africa. In the mid to late 1990's Africans seemed to have realized that if you build a stage, put together swimsuits and evening gowns, and invite important people who should have better things to do to be the judges (i.e. Ministers, heads of companies and University Chancellors) you can make a nice profit. Every beauty in the big cities of the continent under the age of 22 seems to have set her sights on being Miss Zambia, Burkina Faso, Gambia, Malawi or wherever she happens to call home.

The popularity of this unashamedly sexist past-time, in which women parade in front of judges and usually an entire nation, in order to be told that they are pretty and given a free fridge, a lifetime of groceries and perhaps a car, culminated in the mother of all African beauty pageants: the M-Net Face of Africa competition.

In 1997, the television channel, which broadcasts to most African countries, decided to host the competition. According to an M-NET press release, "Face of Africa was conceived by M-Net to create programming that would appeal to its rapidly increasing audience across Africa and to give African models a chance to achieve international success."

According to Etienne Heyns, M-Net's Director of Marketing and Development for Africa, "The competition reflects M-Net's commitment to foster a positive image for Africa, create new opportunities and engender a spirit of community in the many African countries where it broadcasts."

There are some who would argue that creating new opportunities for some African girls to earn big bucks in America doesn't exactly translate into creating better opportunities for the continent as a whole.

Dorothy Tshabalala, a Programme Officer at the African Gender Institute at the University of Cape Town, comments; "African women face serious socio-economic challenges as we head into this millennium. Infant mortality and maternal mortality are still unacceptably high in many countries, even where the technology exists to ensure that women have health care.

African women in the same age group as these young women on this Face of Africa contest, are contracting HIV faster than anyone else in the world. It is a very dangerous time to be 15 - 24 African and woman right now. As far as I'm concerned, such contests are a huge waste of time and resources. Aside from the fact that you are essentially judging a human being on what they look like, like a horse show or the slave auctions of old. Why is it acceptable to do this to women, when it is rare to find such contests for men? We can't pretend that everything is okay on this continent, and we shouldn't try to emulate the West. They have these competitions because they can afford them. We can't."

Arguably, soccer matches and talent competitions, if held to the same standards will fail as well. African development won't come from the forms of entertainments we choose or if we choose any at all. The problem isn't that we have beauty pageants, it's how and why we have them.

The first M-Net face of Africa competition was won by thinner than thin Nigerian teenager Oluchi Onweagba. Onweagba spent a successful year in New York. She secured a contract with Gap clothing, did some work for Ralph Lauren, and has become a familiar face to US shoppers. Aside from a dark complexion, Onweagba has an impressively African nose. If Africans used their own standards, would Onweagba have won as an African beauty?

It's partially a matter of taste. In a continent of 750 million people and hundreds of languages and cultures, it's difficult to come up with any coherent sense of what is beautiful. Yoruba beauty is vastly different from Luo beauty. A handsome Masai man has distinctly different features from a good-looking brother from the Xhosa nation.

However, let's assume that there are some elements that are common amongst Africans. Our noses tend to be flatter, our faces fuller, and aside from nomadic peoples, women's bums and hips tend to be bigger. There are other differences but they can't be as easily generalised. So yes, Onweagba fit into what some Africans define as beautiful, but there is also no doubt that she fit into the Western mould of what pretty is. Her weight, and that of her fellow competitors, was notably below the average for healthy African girls in their late teens, and her height, well, at 1.89 metres, she could pass for Scandinavian.

The second Face of Africa contest was held in Windhoek in February 1999. Castings were done in 25 countries and the event was broadcast live to 42 countries, (which sadly, was a first in television history in Africa) The winner this time was Benvinda Mundenge of Namibia. Mundenge's look was refreshing. With short natural hair and a slightly broader nose than the average white beauty contestant, she looks African. However, she is also tall and thin, and will wear European clothing well.

The next Face of Africa will be held in Cape Town in March 2000. Given the furor over the entry of white South African Tracy Maitland last year, it will be interesting to see what the next Face looks like.

My guess is that if you're under 5'6, heavier than 60 kgs and have a gap in your front teeth, you're unlikely to win. But hey, send us your photo. NRG is starting the Real Faces of Africa contest, and only intelligence counts. So, kinky hair, excess weight and derriere's to sing praises to are all welcome. Applicants will be judged on their ability to change the face of Africa for the better rather than their capacity to stand on a catwalk and claim to be that face.

[Amatsyah Tel Dan]

alec wek with about 30 more pounds
i am shallow, but appearance is foremost and then personality

[Rebel Queen]

Originally Posted by amatsyah tel dan

alec wek with about 30 more pounds
i am shallow, but appearance is foremost and then personality

Thanks for responding and i appreciate your honesty. Although i dont know if being shallow is something i'd pride myself in. We are all human and we know what attracts us physically but in my opinion someone that i am in a relationship with has to have a whole lot more than what others consider to be outer beauty going for them... Thanks again for replying Brother Amatsyah tel dan.

[Nandii]

My idea of beauty is hard working (on a job!)strong afrikan man aware of himself (culturally) with a positive/motivating personalty, a little more steel than velvet and able to cope with me and my very special brand of sh**.
I wouldn't care what he looked like....

[Rebel Queen]

Originally Posted by amatsyah tel dan

The Beauty of Black
Can Pretty Faces Change the Face of Africa?
By Marilyn Kimani

Only Alec Wek, with her gangly, awkward body, round face, decidedly African nose, deep set eyes, and jet black skin, has managed to make people sit up and question what beauty really is. More importantly for us, she has started a debate on African beauty.

When Wek came onto the haute couture scene in 1998, her pictures were greeted by a chorus of boos from Africans around the world. The complaint? According to Greta Motaung, a fashion consultant in Johannesburg, "She just isn't cute. That's it, I'm not one of those black people who are into white images, so there is no deep, internal self-hatred here. The woman is plain ugly."

Ralph Maina, a fashion designer in Nairobi, agrees, "White people decided that this woman will become famous. They looked at her blackness, and felt it would be fashionable to build a cult of fascination around her. So they did. Whether anyone really thinks she is beautiful, is another story."

Thanks for posting this article but i think its very sad that Alec Wek gets the attention that she does because of her appearance. The fact that people want to now decide what afrikan beauty is now because she has stepped on the scene shows just how "beautiful" black really is to them. We been around and black forever. Who gives a white man the right to now decide what black beauty is and why do people really care? Why the fascination. I think they are playing her for a fool and getting paid for it. No white person looks at her picture and see's beauty. They look at her and see different. They see a profit. Someone that will spark controversy, conversation and hype. I hope noone forgets the venus hottentot who was put on display because she looked "different" Thats what alek wek is. Another venus hottentot of the 90's. Thanks again for posting this.

[Amatsyah Tel Dan]

"Thanks for posting this article but i think its very sad that Alec Wek gets the attention that she does because of her appearance. The fact that people want to now decide what afrikan beauty is now because she has stepped on the scene shows just how "beautiful" black really is to them. We been around and black forever. Who gives a white man the right to now decide what black beauty is and why do people really care? Why the fascination. I think they are playing her for a fool and getting paid for it. No white person looks at her picture and see's beauty. They look at her and see different. They see a profit. Someone that will spark controversy, conversation and hype. I hope noone forgets the venus hottentot who was put on display because she looked "different" Thats what alek wek is. Another venus hottentot of the 90's. Thanks again for posting this. " frm rebel queen


Very good observation, beauty in a sense is defined by the ones printing the magazines, funding the fashions shows and beauty pagents

and i guess as a consumer to a greater or lesser degree agree with what is put before us.

i do remember when she came on the scene, my attraction was, damn an african, a non european, and she is alluring to me, myself and i

maybe i am attracted to her africaness, and not the europeanized african american look

[Sun Ship]

In contemplating this thread’s title, I thought about the many things said about beauty. One great writer said, “Beauty, unlike genius, doesn’t have to be explained” or the sophist of Athens believed “beauty is in the eye of the beholder” and Socrates responded “it doesn’t have be behold, to be beautiful” Or spinning off a most common saying, “beauty is only skin deep, but ugliness can go all the way down to the bone”, as we compare visual beauty to personality.

One brother I know, use to say a woman needs to be at least “easy on the eyes”

And another brother I know, who seemed to have always been very metaphysical in his thinking said, his bad eyesight was an advantage to finding a intrinsically beautiful Black women, because he would remove his glasses were he could only make out the luminance in their eyes, if it was powerfully present, it spoke to him on some ethereal level. He says he’s never been wrong… and that’s how he found his wife of 30 years.

One thing about beauty, "you can’t talk to it"…"it doesn’t give a damn if you’re sick or well”… “you can’t eat it” it is not the evidence of intelligence, spirituality or love. It is not even a barometer for sexual uniqueness or prowess, no matter how shallow the idea.

Most perfect looking fruit in the store taste awful…what’s, beautiful is when something looks real and relates to your senses on every level. When most Black women are not trying to fight their own looks and are comfortable with what God has given them…it is almost impossible to use the term ugly to define them…

The term Beauty might be like the word, “I” (ego) full of too many European narcissistic pitfalls.

[ThoughtfulGirl]

Well I'm gonna answer in my honest and shallow self. Well I am not completly hung up on looks but I do have two major physical requirements. White teeth and you can not be overweight. Now mentally you have to be able to think critically, respectful to people. Thats it and the rest is up in the air.

[Rebel Queen]

Originally Posted by ThoughtfulGirl

Well I'm gonna answer in my honest and shallow self. Well I am not completly hung up on looks but I do have two major physical requirements. White teeth and you can not be overweight. Now mentally you have to be able to think critically, respectful to people. Thats it and the rest is up in the air.

Hey sis thanks fa responding. We got to stop using this shallow word. LOL
I can understand the two issues you spoke of. In my opinion those are things that can be taken care of with the help of another. I personally dont think anyone should be overweight but thats for health reasons and nothing else. We are soldiers so we gotta look and feel the part. But in some instances that man of your dreams (mentally) just may be a lil portly but that can be changed easliy with your help and a lil dicipline on his part. The teeth...well that aint nothing a dentist cant handle. But sis i feel you and its all good. Thanks again for responding!

[rebelAfrika]

My thing is this. I don't care how "fine" a woman is...if she has an ugly personality, it ruins everything (and that's the "edited" version of what I really wanted to say). "PERSONALITY" is the number one qualifier of "beauty" for me. My friends used to shoot on me about some of the girls I have dated in the past, but I didn't care because they was not the ones who had to be with them (again...thats the edited version of what I really wanted to say). I USED to be especially caught up in looks and what my friends would say AT FIRST, but that was until I was old enough to realize that even if I was with "the finest woman in the world," there is always going to be somebody "finer" than her ANYWAYS. So if I "HAVE" to go by looks alone, then I only like women who you could catergorize as "African" or some kind of "hyphenated" African. And not too big. I can be with a big woman, but not a woman who I would consider "too big."

[Rebel Queen]

Personally i dont care what anyone else feels about whoever i choose to deal with because it has nothing to do with anyone outside of our circle. When i was younger i was hung up on looks for a min but it seemed to me that every guy that i even looked at because of his looks turned out to be full of ish. I dont think there is anything wrong with having preferences as we all do, but when you are so hung up on a persons looks that you cant see beyond that then you'll miss out on many good and meaningful relationships/friendships in your lifetime. Almost all of us grow up thinking that what signifies beauty is what we see on tv and in magazines or what everyone else likes. All these looks are white washed to me yet we still think "damn she/he fine". What we see in magazines and in videos is what many brothers and sisters look for. But none of that is real. You have sisters walking around all made up for tv but dont know a damn thing about there culture or whats really up and this is our main idea of beauty. Then you got these brothers on the videos who cant wait to show off there bling bling but thats the only thing they can show off. These are who i see us mimicking everyday and this is whats fine to us...Its a damn shame. A beautiful personality as well as what i call a sexy brain is most important to me. Oh and you HAVE to be Black! (no going around that one..lol)

[Issa_Scriptures]

Greeting Fam

I like a sista who doesnt follow the western standard of beauty. I cant stand when a sista puts some weave in her head whether sewn, glued or just a clip-on weave from dollar general to give the illusion of long hair and then the fake eye color contacts and all that other mess misguided sistas fight over at the hair store. I was at a hair store one time and seen 2 sistas fight over the last piece of weave that was a certain color(blue) it was embarassing to see it believe me, calling each other *****es and hoes over a piece of hair they shouldnt even be trying to put in they head anyway. They put it in their daugthers hair then wonder why the childs hair is breaking off and not growing back. Give me a sista with an afro, dreads even bald I dont care as long she has the qualities of a true sista and represents the heritage and not condemning herself by trying to whiten herself up with weaves, contacts and other methods to try to get accepted by the other misguided souls in my area.