Ending the Battle of the Sexes in the Black Community

[Rebel Queen]

Peace Everyone,

I started this thread after i saw a comment in another thread regarding this issue. I belive there is a major problem within the Black community between male and female counter parts. Im not so interested in the why's as i am of the solutions that you may have to ending this problem and I say this because we'll find a million different excuses, some valid, some not as to why there is a lack of unity between our men and women. Yet when it comes time to finding solutions, we're at a loss for words. I personally dont know why this is but im ready to face this problem and make some serious changes within myself. If we cant be at PEACE with each other, if we cant LEAN on each other, then who else do we have.

I know from personal experience that i have been part of the blame as to why my past relationships/ friendships may not have worked or even why everyday interactions may have gone sour. So at this moment im trying to face my own inner demons rather than looking for someone else to solely blame. For the most part it takes two to make or break a relationship/friendship whether we want to belive it or not. What steps if any or you taking to end this ongoing battle between our men and women??? Any solutions fam?

[Akyeame Kwame]

Originally Posted by Rebel Queen

Peace Everyone,

I started this thread after i saw a comment in another thread regarding this issue. I belive there is a major problem within the Black community between male and female counter parts. Im not so interested in the why's as i am of the solutions that you may have to ending this problem and I say this because we'll find a million different excuses, some valid, some not as to why there is a lack of unity between our men and women. Yet when it comes time to finding solutions, we're at a loss for words. I personally dont know why this is but im ready to face this problem and make some serious changes within myself. If we cant be at PEACE with each other, if we cant LEAN on each other, then who else do we have.

I know from personal experience that i have been part of the blame as to why my past relationships/ friendships may not have worked or even why everyday interactions may have gone sour. So at this moment im trying to face my own inner demons rather than looking for someone else to solely blame. For the most part it takes two to make or break a relationship/friendship whether we want to belive it or not. What steps if any or you taking to end this ongoing battle between our men and women??? Any solutions fam?

htp Sista Rebel Queen,

Amos Wilson recommends in his "The True Meaning of Afrikan Manhood" lecture that Women put down their feminine egos and listen to the man when he is saying something that is aligned with Afrikan liberation and that men do the same when the woman is saying something that is aligned with Afrikan Liberation...if WE focus on higher principles instead of how WE might feel about "this is a man who's telling me this so i ain't gon' listen" or "this is a woman who's telling me this so i ain't gon' listen", WE might be in better shape...higher principles...like The Total Liberation of Afrikan People Throughout the Known Universe throughout Space and Time...

[Rebel Queen]

Originally Posted by Akyeame Kwame

htp Sista Rebel Queen

Amos Wilson recommends in his "The True Meaning of Afrikan Manhood" lecture that Women put down their feminine egos and listen to the man when he is saying something that is aligned with Afrikan liberation and that men do the same when the woman is saying something that is aligned with Afrikan Liberation...if WE focus on higher principles instead of how WE might feel about "this is a man who's telling me this so i ain't gon' listen" or "this is a woman who's telling me this so i ain't gon' listen", WE might be in better shape...higher principles...like The Total Liberation of Afrikan People Throughout the Known Universe throughout Space and Time...

Peace Kwame,

I must say i agree with you completly. Nothing more dangerous than our egos. I feel we all have some growing to do in this area. We continuously strive on our emotions and completly lose sense of the bigger picture. My emotions have gotten me in trouble in the past. Now that i'm able to look past that for the most part (when necessary), i see things a lot more clearly. I begin to realise that all that emotional ish doesnt really matter. It is always wiser to focus on what IS. The bigger picture becomes much clearer then.

I also want to add that im not saying that we should lose sight of all emotion, i'm just saying that many of us including myself at times let our emotions get the best of us when in reality a swollen ego dont mean ish when we compare that to the conditions that the entire black nation is facing here and now....(hope i didnt run away or read to far into ya comment) Thanks for sharing your thoughts Bro Kwame! Stay beautifully Black.

RQ

[Akyeame Kwame]

Originally Posted by Rebel Queen

Peace Kwame,

I must say i agree with you completly. Nothing more dangerous than our egos. I feel we all have some growing to do in this area. We continuously strive on our emotions and completly lose sense of the bigger picture. My emotions have gotten me in trouble in the past. Now that i'm able to look past that for the most part (when necessary), i see things a lot more clearly. I begin to realise that all that emotional ish doesnt really matter. It is always wiser to focus on what IS. The bigger picture becomes much clearer then.

I also want to add that im not saying that we should lose sight of all emotion, i'm just saying that many of us including myself at times let our emotions get the best of us when in reality a swollen ego dont mean ish when we compare that to the conditions that the entire black nation is facing here and now....(hope i didnt run away or read to far into ya comment) Thanks for sharing your thoughts Bro Kwame! Stay beautifully Black.

RQ

u won't reading 2 much n 2 it at all...that's jest what i wuz sayin' i will stay Beautifully Black and you as well stay Blacktifully BlackTastic!!!

[NeterHeru]

Blessings of Peace and Serenity,

REBEL QUEEN: Sister the following post is my solution. Though it's from another topic on the board I feel it is thematically related to your questions, but if you believe otherwise I apologize for posting it.

Originally posted 02-15-2005

"Blessings of Peace and Serenity,

I'm not surprised that this topic hasn't received any attention at all, outside of the Queens United forum. In any event I concur with sister Tamara 100% I learned early on in my youth that the same way unconscious brothers use street lingo to run game on sisters, conscious brothers use knowledge, wisdom, and understanding to run game on conscious sisters. The ultimate goal, of course, being either getting into her panties or imposing control over her in order to effect a desired result.

One of the greatest, if not biggest, hindrances toward eradicating this problem is the fact that brothers generally ignore its existence. They, like sister Welsing, believe that it's a "European thing" or caused by racism & white supremacy, which still makes it a European thing. Thus, the only way to destroy the problem is to effectuate a power shift in this country by removing white men and replacing them with Black men, hence this will end the life of racism & white supremacy. Yet such a position only side-steps the overall issue through distraction of another issue (racism & white supremacy).

In addition to the above, there is a loathing fear that sisters (women in general for that matter) have in raising this precise problem for all the reasons--and more--which sister Tamara cited in her article. So there usually is no discussing this problem anyway, even if she does raise it. And that is also another problem: the very notion of raising the issue is considered sacrilegious by conscious brothers. It's sad, but a sister who brings up this problem is looked at askance and considered to be the shame of herself, her people, and the organization since it's like she's comparing a "conscious brother to a typical whitey." Thus her concerns have no basis in fact and are of the white woman feminists' ilk.

Even though no such comparison is being made (as if to say Black women are simply delusional about the sexism, mysogyny, and chauvinism, which is rampant within conscious circles) this is how her essential plea for justice is misconstrued, misperceived, and misunderstood. Yet, unfortunately, it is a deliberate lack of concern which causes the latter. And, like the Reparations issue which is politically being refused dialogue, so too do our conscious circles refuse to dialogue about this very problem, which exceeds the boundaries of the activist community.

I believe the solution is first Black men acknowledgeing that a problem indeed exists and it cannot be blamed on Black women themselves, we must take full responsibility for it. Thus we must forego our own egocentrism and enact our meekness by actually LISTENING to sisters' concerns rather than just hearing them. Secondly, once we acknowledge that there is a problem, discourse must begin on its nature and how it affects Black women as a whole, which directly impacts Black people as a whole. Black women will be the ones talking and brothers will be the ones LISTENING, in order to establish a proper call and response.

Thirdly, Women's Studies (which is actually Black women history) along with Black female authors of Women's Studies should become mandatory erudition. There is no practical acceptation and appreciation of Black women's experience in history. That is, even though there is a theoretical admiration of them contextually as Queens and Goddesses, no pragmatical application of such admiration exists. It is the masses of Black women who are suffering under the tyranny of patriarchy, not those titled as Queens and Goddesses, but the every day, hard working, single-parenting, struggling, trying to save the Black nation sister. It is the masses of sisters in antiquity who authenticated all the Queens and Goddesses as such, even though they were not.

Forthly, brothers need to make a conscious effort to truly put into practice changing the obvious: the way we conceive, perceive, and speak of Black women and women in general must be in a matriarchal context. Once we go through this egocentric metamorphosis, crystalize not only an appreciation but an acceptation of Black women's historical experience and culture, perhaps we will have taken the first step toward actually eradicating this problem. When the common, every day average sister is acknowledged as the primal senator within our communities, the creator of Queens and Goddesses, Kings and Gods, and accorded such extolment based on pratical erudition of her own historical experience, then--and only then--I feel we will have moved one step closer to becoming a completely liberated people."

[Rebel Queen]

Brother Neter Heru,

Thank you for sharing and i must say that i agree with some of what you said but there are some areas i take issue with.

"I believe the solution is first Black men acknowledgeing that a problem indeed exists and it cannot be blamed on Black women themselves, we must take full responsibility for it. Thus we must forego our own egocentrism and enact our meekness by actually LISTENING to sisters' concerns rather than just hearing them. Secondly, once we acknowledge that there is a problem, discourse must begin on its nature and how it affects Black women as a whole, which directly impacts Black people as a whole. Black women will be the ones talking and brothers will be the ones LISTENING, in order to establish a proper call and response."

I take issue with this statement because Black Men CANNOT take full responsibility for this problem. They cannot because they are not the underlying cause. I do believe that each person is responsible for there OWN actions, this being true for both MEN anddd WOMEN especially when you are fully aware of right and wrong regardless of what brought you to the point youre at. I love the solution that u gave regarding brothers foregoing there egocentrism but i think sisters need to do the same as well. Sisters need to listen as much as brothers do. This doesnt just affect black women... its a problem within the entire black community and once we start placing blame on the brothers that causes problems right there. I look at the root or the core of issues such as this and ive come to the conclusion, (if anyone doesnt agree, correct me please,) that during the slave trade we were set against each other. The willie lynch letter sums this up. We were made to distrust each other and we past this down from generation to generation and look where we are now. Sounds unreal? Its not that far fetched.

Anyway the point im trying to make is that, when we continue to blame each other ,then the problem only gets worse, because noone wants to take the blame. The fact is we have a problem and it needs to be fixed. We have a million and one people we can decide to blame for our actions, but really where is it going to get us in the here and now? I only brought up the slave trade because i think thats the root of the problem, but its not something i choose to dwell on continuously because the fact is its been done... so where do we go from here? We need to work together NOW! We spend so much time pointing fingers at each other as if we dont have things we need to work on ourselves. Now dont get me wrong, i KNOW that there are instances where either party needs solely to step up and take responsibility for his/her actions...but all im saying is that this issue as a whole is about both men and women and it will take both men and women to fix it.

Thank you for sharing Borther Neter Heru.

[Daisho]

Exercise In Equality

1. Does your mate/counterpart listen to you as much as he/she speaks to you?

2. When your mate talks to you do you find you're more or less being talked at or spoken with?

3. In said conversations of common goals, how many of those ideas are "I" or self based beyond the collective united intended destination of "We"?

4. How many of said goals are not for mere personal growth but entirely selfish and cosmetic in nature?

5. Are you demoralized when your faults are presented to you solely to make your mate feel superior, wiser or more informed? Is criticism instructive or destructive?

6. Are you often compared to a fantasy directly or indirectly? If indirectly what are the methods used?

7. Was it or is it you that determines what a mans/womans place is in the relationship or is this dictated to you?

8. At anytime when dealing with family, associates, comrades or an gathering of idea builders does your mate attempt to subject you to the background by reducing your ideas and debasing them in said forum? When others do, does your mate have your back?

It's always the little things that create large gaps between the sexes I believe. The movement begins at home and if you can't build equality in your own dwelling why bother crossing the threshold of your doorstep?


There is fear and insecurity in pride- Pride emphasizes the importance of the superiority of ones status in the eyes of others. There is fear and insecurity in pride, for when one aims at being highly esteemed, and having achieved such status, he/she is automatically involved in the fear of losing ones status. Then protection of his/her status appears to be his most "important" need, and this creates anxiety.-Bruce Lee

[Rebel Queen]

Originally Posted by Daisho

Exercise In Equality

It's always the little things that create large gaps between the sexes I believe. The movement begins at home and if you can't build equality in your own dwelling why bother crossing the threshold of your doorstep?


There is fear and insecurity in pride- Pride emphasizes the importance of the superiority of ones status in the eyes of others. There is fear and insecurity in pride, for when one aims at being highly esteemed, and having achieved such status, he/she is automatically involved in the fear of losing ones status. Then protection of his/her status appears to be his most "important" need, and this creates anxiety.-Bruce Lee

Brother Daisho,

Im really glad you shared this. The questions made me think about past relationships.. i mean really made me think. So thanks for sharing that. I also agree that it is the little things that can cause the biggest gaps. Alot of that has to do with a lack of understanding of our mates.

This can definatly cause a serious clash between the two. I remeber one guy i dealt with...It always seemed that when he wanted to get his point across, he had to raise his voice. I mean im standing right infront of him and he is practiclly yelling at me to get his point across. It would make me so mad because i told him time and time again that i dont like it.. It made me feel like he was talking down to me and that just didnt fly for me. So since he wouldnt listen, everytime he did it, i walked away and left him talking to himself and then he would get sooo mad because he felt i was being desrespectful. It got out of hand after a while and we were just at each others throats. It would blow up into more than it needed too. The messed up part is that this was my main issue with him. and my walking away became his main issue with me.. It was just ridiculous. The realtionship didnt last long at all. This is just an example of how something so simple can get out of hand if you both let it because besides that, when things were good between us they were really good.

Anyway thanks for sharing your thoughts, very much appreciated. Also i had to copy that bruce lee quote and send it out to a friend of mine. Its perfect for the situation he is in... Thanks

[Akyeame Kwame]

Originally Posted by Rebel Queen

Brother Neter Heru,

Thank you for sharing and i must say that i agree with some of what you said but there are some areas i take issue with.

"I believe the solution is first Black men acknowledgeing that a problem indeed exists and it cannot be blamed on Black women themselves, we must take full responsibility for it. Thus we must forego our own egocentrism and enact our meekness by actually LISTENING to sisters' concerns rather than just hearing them. Secondly, once we acknowledge that there is a problem, discourse must begin on its nature and how it affects Black women as a whole, which directly impacts Black people as a whole. Black women will be the ones talking and brothers will be the ones LISTENING, in order to establish a proper call and response."

I take issue with this statement because Black Men CANNOT take full responsibility for this problem. They cannot because they are not the underlying cause. I do believe that each person is responsible for there OWN actions, this being true for both MEN anddd WOMEN especially when you are fully aware of right and wrong regardless of what brought you to the point youre at. I love the solution that u gave regarding brothers foregoing there egocentrism but i think sisters need to do the same as well. Sisters need to listen as much as brothers do. This doesnt just affect black women... its a problem within the entire black community and once we start placing blame on the brothers that causes problems right there. I look at the root or the core of issues such as this and ive come to the conclusion, (if anyone doesnt agree, correct me please,) that during the slave trade we were set against each other. The willie lynch letter sums this up. We were made to distrust each other and we past this down from generation to generation and look where we are now. Sounds unreal? Its not that far fetched.

Anyway the point im trying to make is that, when we continue to blame each other ,then the problem only gets worse, because noone wants to take the blame. The fact is we have a problem and it needs to be fixed. We have a million and one people we can decide to blame for our actions, but really where is it going to get us in the here and now? I only brought up the slave trade because i think thats the root of the problem, but its not something i choose to dwell on continuously because the fact is its been done... so where do we go from here? We need to work together NOW! We spend so much time pointing fingers at each other as if we dont have things we need to work on ourselves. Now dont get me wrong, i KNOW that there are instances where either party needs solely to step up and take responsibility for his/her actions...but all im saying is that this issue as a whole is about both men and women and it will take both men and women to fix it.

Thank you for sharing Borther Neter Heru.

well said as always Rebel Queen

[Akyeame Kwame]

Originally Posted by Daisho

Exercise In Equality

1. Does your mate/counterpart listen to you as much as he/she speaks to you?

2. When your mate talks to you do you find you're more or less being talked at or spoken with?

3. In said conversations of common goals, how many of those ideas are "I" or self based beyond the collective united intended destination of "We"?

4. How many of said goals are not for mere personal growth but entirely selfish and cosmetic in nature?

5. Are you demoralized when your faults are presented to you solely to make your mate feel superior, wiser or more informed? Is criticism instructive or destructive?

6. Are you often compared to a fantasy directly or indirectly? If indirectly what are the methods used?

7. Was it or is it you that determines what a mans/womans place is in the relationship or is this dictated to you?

8. At anytime when dealing with family, associates, comrades or an gathering of idea builders does your mate attempt to subject you to the background by reducing your ideas and debasing them in said forum? When others do, does your mate have your back?

It's always the little things that create large gaps between the sexes I believe. The movement begins at home and if you can't build equality in your own dwelling why bother crossing the threshold of your doorstep?


There is fear and insecurity in pride- Pride emphasizes the importance of the superiority of ones status in the eyes of others. There is fear and insecurity in pride, for when one aims at being highly esteemed, and having achieved such status, he/she is automatically involved in the fear of losing ones status. Then protection of his/her status appears to be his most "important" need, and this creates anxiety.-Bruce Lee

BlackCellent post and new signature Bro. Daisho...

[Rebel Queen]

Anyone else care to add there thoughts on this matter?

[Draptomania]

Hmmmm. Imma throw my hat into the ring here and see what happens
I believe in following a KING. Now, I have learned in the past that any man CANNOT be a KING and that I cannot craft a man into being one.( I don't possess the power to do that anyway) There have been many a times I have been in conversations with Brothers and I have made a statement that went unnoticed until another Brother voiced the same damned thing I said and everybody jumps on his bandwagon. Now, not only did that get my goat it really, truly hurt my feelings :sad: Many times I have been felt left out of this whole thing by brothers who feel women have nothing to contribute but babies and house tending duties. I wish more Brothers would realize that- Yes, I CAN perform things physically, but there is a mental side to me as well and I would like my intellectual input to be taken into consideration too. That aint too much to ask, is it??? :cheers:
Well, that's my two cents

[Daisho]

Those are some of the shiniest pennies I've seen in a minute...lol

[Akyeame Kwame]

Originally Posted by Draptomania

Hmmmm. Imma throw my hat into the ring here and see what happens
I believe in following a KING. Now, I have learned in the past that any man CANNOT be a KING and that I cannot craft a man into being one.( I don't possess the power to do that anyway) There have been many a times I have been in conversations with Brothers and I have made a statement that went unnoticed until another Brother voiced the same damned thing I said and everybody jumps on his bandwagon. Now, not only did that get my goat it really, truly hurt my feelings :sad: Many times I have been felt left out of this whole thing by brothers who feel women have nothing to contribute but babies and house tending duties. I wish more Brothers would realize that- Yes, I CAN perform things physically, but there is a mental side to me as well and I would like my intellectual input to be taken into consideration too. That aint too much to ask, is it??? :cheers:

Well, that's my two cents

my experience is almost begging a sista to share something...like deadly silent at meetings of Afrikans then afterwards (to me) like, "i thought this and that and this made me so angry" to which i would always reply, "why u ain't say something"...well, at least u have the confidence to express yaself...

[Rebel Queen]

Originally Posted by Draptomania

Hmmmm. Imma throw my hat into the ring here and see what happens
I believe in following a KING. Now, I have learned in the past that any man CANNOT be a KING and that I cannot craft a man into being one.( I don't possess the power to do that anyway) There have been many a times I have been in conversations with Brothers and I have made a statement that went unnoticed until another Brother voiced the same damned thing I said and everybody jumps on his bandwagon. Now, not only did that get my goat it really, truly hurt my feelings :sad: Many times I have been felt left out of this whole thing by brothers who feel women have nothing to contribute but babies and house tending duties. I wish more Brothers would realize that- Yes, I CAN perform things physically, but there is a mental side to me as well and I would like my intellectual input to be taken into consideration too. That aint too much to ask, is it??? :cheers:
Well, that's my two cents

Hey sis,

Well i must say i share some of your sentiments sis. I have been made to feel the same on many occasions and IT is not a good feeling. A matter of fact i think that i can speak for many sisters when saying that. And hell no it aint too much to ask.

But here is my suggestion, and this may only work for me in the long run. But maybe the FOLLOWING a king part is where some of us go wrong, just as FOLLOWING anyone can take a turn for the worse. You cant obtain a sense of blance or unity in any relationship if youre always behind or if we're always trying to play catch up. Maybe we need to start walking beside whatever King/Queen we choose instead of following him/her. Maybe we should start following each other instead of giving that power to just one specific person. I say that cause the latter doesnt seem to be working so maybe we should try something else. People arent born with power as some may think. Others give it to them. You spend your whole life making others powerful by following them or letting them lead the way and where does that leave you in the end. Everything YOU want to do or you have to bring to that relationship is cut short cause youre busy following and he's busy leading the way instead of you both working together. How much more can be accomplished if we seriously get on the grind as a team. The sad part is that the time thats taken to make each other feel inferior we dont think about the bigger picture, the fact that we in the same damn boat, male or female, and that boat is going to continue to sink if we dont stop acting like we aint got no sense and begin working together as a team. We give our power away everytime we f*** each other off. And yall know who is taking it.