Is Spirit Posession Merely Psychosomatic?

[Chinyre]

i have never been to traditional ritual. can somebody please tell me if spirit posession is merely psychosomatic or not. is it more. opinions and thoughts please

[Tehuti-4]

Main Entry: 1psy·cho·so·mat·ic
Pronunciation: "sI-k&-s&-'mat-ik, -kO-, -sO-
Function: adjective
1 : of, relating to, concerned with, or involving both mind and body <the psychosomatic nature of man —Herbert Ratner>
2 a : of, relating to, involving, or concerned with bodily symptoms caused by mental or emotional disturbance <psychosomatic illness>

Let's begin with what you mean when you say psychosomatic.

[Elisa Keisha]

As far as I've learnt, psychosomatic is when you express thru your body something that starts in the mind, unconsciously

(I know i know, i aint used to express this in english)

Like for example, when a woman dont wanna go to work coz her boss is sexually harrassin her, and she suddenly develops a medical illness.
when sombody is under stress and he develops an ulcer.

So I guess what she means if spirit possesion is all in the mind of the "posessed"?

[PapaTallTree]

Peace



Iwould like to say that if it is all in the mind how do you explain the readings, messages that sometimes takes years to come to past?:

[IfasehunReincarnated]

No. It is not psychosomatic. Not in the slightest bit. Its the control of the body AND mind by another entity altogether. There is a process taught to Priest that specializes in Possession that allows them to be possessed in one aspect and still conscious as well, but its not easily defined. And in this case its still not pschyosomatic.

As Papa gently reminds us during possesion the "horse" knows things that havent happened, sometimes speaks words and languages its never heard, and can confront people about secrets or behavior that they havent divulged verbally to anyone. There is no part of the "mind" that can know a language its never spoken or heard nor any part of the "mind" that can tell someone the details of their life or an event without ever having met them.

There are 3 primary sources that faciltate such "access" - Deity, Ancestors and True Self (which is always defined as that which controls and lived above emotions, not dependent upon or in conjuction with). In Yoruba culture True Self is Ori. The divine part of you.

Why does it interest you?

[Chinyre]

Peace All,


I was confronted with this question by a brother who compared Spirit Posession in the Afrikan spirituality tradition to Holy rollers and "catching the spirity". he was saying how it is just people reacting to stimuli. that it could all be explained in the mind. thats why i was wondering about it. Im also interested in traditional African spirituality and would like to attend a ceremony one day. thats why i asked. thanks for the response all

[IfasehunReincarnated]

Your friends summation of spirit possession is very white. So long as he knows this, he is free to believe it if he likes. Tell him had his foreparents never been slaves that were culturally subjugated by Europeans that rationale would have never entered his mind.

[Nubian]

i've seen the connection between black american christian worship and traditional afrikan spirit possession..i wondered how these christians could condemn afrikan spiritual practices so harshly? when i saw vodun ceremonies the similarities were so striking! the major difference i saw was only in the identity of the spirit possessing the person..the christians were being posessed by the "holy ghost" or whatever..and the afrikans were being possessed by shango or somone..i'm sure thats a major difference..but the methods were the same..it made it obvious to me..that spirit posession was natural to afrikans..be they christians or whatever they are..but the christians don't want to admit they have anything in common with afrikan spirituality...this is just their ignorance of afrikan spirituality..

[SoularFlarez]

Originally Posted by IfasehunReincarnated

As Papa gently reminds us during possesion the "horse" knows things that havent happened, sometimes speaks words and languages its never heard, and can confront people about secrets or behavior that they havent divulged verbally to anyone. There is no part of the "mind" that can know a language its never spoken or heard nor any part of the "mind" that can tell someone the details of their life or an event without ever having met them.

thas like the illest stuff ive ever heard !!

like if you were to go ''online'' instant download new program UPGRADE !! activate !!

i was readen while back..i belive it was Afrikan Origins of Biological Pyschiatry (?) ( blue cover with King Tut's face)..anyway the author was talken bout the BLACKDOT (pineal gland) and MELANIN haven blackhole properties that allows us to tap into the "ALL" and do things like U were sayen...like we were BORN with 1000x's more (bio)technology then this modern *civilization* has

[Warrior Princess]

Originally Posted by Nubian

i've seen the connection between black american christian worship and traditional afrikan spirit possession..i wondered how these christians could condemn afrikan spiritual practices so harshly? when i saw vodun ceremonies the similarities were so striking! the major difference i saw was only in the identity of the spirit possessing the person..the christians were being posessed by the "holy ghost" or whatever..and the afrikans were being possessed by shango or somone..i'm sure thats a major difference..but the methods were the same..it made it obvious to me..that spirit posession was natural to afrikans..be they christians or whatever they are..but the christians don't want to admit they have anything in common with afrikan spirituality...this is just their ignorance of afrikan spirituality..

Exactly... Have you ever wondered why this is SO conveniently ignored by both, those who will have nothing to do with what is called ATR as well as those who will have nothing to with what is called Black Christianity? You see how the same things are going on and anyone who has any knowledge of both could see that as well.

Afrikan Origins of Biological Pyschiatry

Now is the author of that Dr.Richard King? (I know he changed his name, but I'm not sure what it is...) If you like that, I'm sure you would dig King's "Melanin". (I don't remember the subtitle, something like "Key to Life" or "Key to the Soul" or something...)

[Kentake]

Hotep family!,
YES that is true there are great similarities! yet, DO NOT FORGET that one was a predecessor to the other and there is a CHOICE TO MAKE....Afreekan spirituality in all its forms is the original form of worship and praise. as we all like to say in the pan-afreekan world "AFREEKA IS THE CRADLE OF CIVILIZATION" so if this is so then why do blk ppl find it so hard to accept Afreekan spirituality? and also put up barriers to learning from those who are the actual practitioners and preservers of this majestic tradition!? we can go on and on for decades about christianity and islam but WE SHOULD ALL KNOW THAT AFREEKAN SPIRITUALITY AND THE NETER/ORISHAS/LWAS/OBOSOMS CAME BEFORE JACOB AND MUHAMMED AND IN NO WAY CAN THEY BE COMPARED TO THEM!! CAN YOU COMPARE HERU (whose identity was changed to JESUS) to MOSES? CAN YOU COMPARE MAAT TO DELILAH? CAN YOU COMPARE ERZULIE DANTOR (AUSET or ISIS changed in2 the virgin mary!) TO ANY OTHER SO-CALLED CAUCASIAN VIRGIN IN THE BIBLE? OUR ANCIENT DIVINITES ARE AS OLD AS TIME ITSELF AND OBVIOUSLY MUCH OLDER THAN THE HALLUCINATIONS THAT CAUCASIANS AND ARABS MADE UP IN THEIR MIND IN ORDER TO PUT US UNDER MIND AND BODY CONTROL FOR CENTURIES (which has been completed very effectively by the way!!-in both the continent and the diaspora).so with all the similarities you still will not find me singing no hymns in the church (or the mosque) with bros. and sistahs but you will surely see me in an ancient Afreekan ceremony singing and praising the venerable orishas.that is where i belong as an Afreekan womb-man!! and SURELY NOWHERE ELSE!



Now about this topic, spirit (or a better word would be- orisha) possession, in most cases, is not something that the devotee or priest/ priestess is aware of, i can say from personal experience that when an orisha (or god/goddess) "mounts" a devotee the person is not aware of what exactly is taking place. you do not know what you are saying or why, it is possible at times to be semi-conscious and the orisha in this case is using your body to send a message to the assembled congregation or to a specific person in the congregation etc. i can tell you that after the orisha has left you in most cases you may not even know what happened!! for ex: this past saturday i attended our annual YAM ceremony which was held by my spiritual family, whereby an orisha "mounted" me and i can tell you i had no control whatsoever, over what took place, i also was unable to speak and felt extremely overwhelmed and completely controlled by a higher force. that is all i am going to say....it is not something that we as human beings are able to control because the divine force that is entering you is a much greater entity that yourself ...i think that if any of you are able to attend a ceremony, you should surely take the opportunity to do so, in order for you to SEE IT FOR YOURSELF ...THEN YOUR QUESTIONS MAY BE ANSWERED MORE EFFECTIVELY.



SANKOFA!,
Kentake.

[Warrior Princess]

Hotep family!,
YES that is true there are great similarites! yet, DO NOT FORGET that one was a predecessor to the other and there is a CHOICE TO MAKE....Afreekan spirituality in all its forms is the original form of worship and praise. as we all like to say in the pan-afreekan world "AFREEKA IS THE CRADLE OF CIVILIZATION" so if this is so then why do blk ppl find it so hard to accept Afreekan spirituality? and also put up barriers to learning from those who are the actual practitoners and preservers of this majestic tradition!? we can go on and on for decades about christianity and islam but WE SHOULD ALL KNOW THAT AFREEKAN SPIRTITUALITY AND THE ORISHAS/LWAS/OBOSOMS CAME BEFORE JACOB AND MUHAMMED AND IN NO WAY CAN THEY BE COMPARED TO THEM!! CAN YOU COMPARE HERU (whose identity was changed to JESUS) to MOSES? CAN YOU COMPARE MAAT TO DELILAH? CAN YOU COMPARE ERZULIE DANTOR (AUSET or ISIS changed in2 the virgin mary!) TO ANY OTHER SO-CALLED CAUCASIAN VIRGIN IN THE BIBLE? OUR ANCIENT DIVINITES ARE AS OLD AS TIME ITSELF AND OBVIOUSLY MUCH OLDER THAN THE HALLUCINATIONS THAT CAUCASIANS AND ARABS MADE UP IN THEIR MIND IN ORDER TO PUT US UNDER MIND AND BODY CONTROL FOR CENTURIES (which has been completed very effectively by the way!!-in both the continent and the diaspora).so with all the similarities you still will not find me singing no hymns in the church (or the mosque) with bros. and sistahs but you will surley see me in a ancient Afreekan ceremony singing and praising the venerable orishas.that is where i belong as an Afreekan womb-man!! and NOWHERE ELSE!
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It is very possible that many (black Christians) refuse to learn about ATR because they first of all simply cannot see that the branches that they are holding on to thrive as a result of the very roots they wish to deny. Possibly if they were exposed to the similarities (which would take holding one up to another as well as being a lot less single-minded than many of us here), they could be like,"This is not different from me afterall. As a matter of fact, this "is" me, in a different form, yes, but this is STILL "me". It's much bigger than just not seeing things in the same way another person who posts on a board sees them; it goes into externally as well as internally constructed barriers that often separate and divide us. If Pan Africanists of ATR really are trying to help break the barriers that divide (us as a people) so that we can all unite and change things for ourselves and the ones who will one day refer to "us" as "their" ancestors, we have got to stop embracing the gun of the ones who do not want us to unite and shooting each other in the face with it.

Simply put, some might want to put the branches down and go to the roots. Some might want to embrace the whole tree. Heck, in my opinion, that really is not so much what matters here, at least as a first step. In my opinion (and I am clear on calling it an 'opinion'), what really matters, at least a first step, is that the many parts of one tree recognize that they are all of the SAME tree, sharing the SAME roots. If this happens, it is possible that being divided over different religions/spirituality/cultures would be nearly unheard of, because that which we all have in common far outweighs that which we do not have in common, that is if we (do/will) want it to.

Furthermore, beyond speculating about people's personal choices and even beyond attributing many choices to slavery/colonialism (which we all know can never be completely separated from the matter), maybe the questions should be asked to both groups of religious/spiritual black people; those who are consciously of ATR and those who are not: Why did you choose the path you chose? How did you come to choose it? What did you have to compare it to? etc. Perhaps then we can see the whys and hows and after these (the whys and hows) are known, maybe the question of "where to go from here" can become less of a taboo.

[IfasehunReincarnated]

ATRS recognize Spirit Possession in Afrikanized Christian Communities
For the record, ATR practictioners recognize the validity in "catching the Holy Spirit" but we also recognize that because christians do not train, study and perfect the science of possession so they have no idea whats really possessing them. The act of possessin simply followed us into the Church experience. Those that fall easily and comfortably and legitimately in "the Ho