African Traditional Religions

[AfroNinpo]

I love my roots and I love the ancient beliefs of my ancestors, but the practice of ATRs in America is beginning to frustrate me. My 3 greatest frustrations are as follows:

1. THEY COST TOO DAMN MUCH! For example...Yoruba...divination costs between 15 and 60 dollars...no problem. But then (if you follow the traditional steps of Yoruba as practiced in the US) you must pay for your elekes, your warriors, your pot(s), one hand of Ifa, and anything else your Babalawo prescribes. These prices are each in the hundreds of dollars!!!!! One may pay 6 or 7 hundred dollars without being initiated (I won't even get into initiation prices). So, what about the brother who doesn't have the money to pay for these ceremonies. Is he then left out? Can he not participate in Yoruba ceremonies? Why should I be paying 300 for this and 500 for that? Bottom line other than paying more than a nominal fee for their time, and paying for materials for the ceremonies ...I shouldn't have to pay a damn thing!

2. I've met very few reliable (or honest) priests/priestesses. Other than being greedy, the priests I've dealt with have done things such as forget I was supposed to come see them (in other words, stood me up), as well as they simply have not taught me anything. For example, I was dealing with a brother who studied the sciences of KMT (Ex-Ausar Auset) who apparently knew a lot more than I. He said, call me and we'll set up a time when you can come to the house and I'll show you a few things. I'm thinking, cool...I'm about to get some good ish. The brother was NEVER available, doesn't return phone calls, and would make excuse after excuse about whatever he was dealing with. Same with the Vodun Priestess..."Have you been to my website? " "Yes, I have." "Well, you need to buy this and order this, and pay me to come down and set up your shrine." "Okay, but I know a place I can get these materials much cheaper than the ones on your website. I'll get them there, then I will pay your travel fee." "No, you have to purchase all ceremonial materials off of my website" CLICK!


3. There is no uniformity even among groups within the same religion. One Kemetic group believes the NTR were Gods, one believes they were God-like Hue-mans. One Ile requires this ceremony with this pot, one Ile does not use pots, one Ile has a communal pot and communal shrines. Etc. Etc. Etc. How can one feel they are receiving the true spirituality if this group says that one is wrong and vice versa. Then you have what I have called, the Battle of the Babas. Baba X says Baba Y ain't real because he does this and that. Baba Y says Baba X ain't real because he never went to Ile Ife. I could have stayed Christian for that kinda bullshit! LOL!


So what do I have to do, travel to Africa to find the true practices of ATRs as they were intended, right? Maybe I will one day. But until then, who do I trust? I'm just frustrated as hell with ATRs. I will continue my journey, but I will not pay another dime for something I feel is ridiculous, and I will not show deference to another priest/priestess.

(Announcer Voice)
*This has been another Afro-rant, payed for by 250 dollar ilekes, a 300 dollar Ogun pot,a 350 dollar Owofakan, and books and amulets out the ass.*

[Kefentse_Bandele]

Originally Posted by AfroNinpo

I love my roots and I love the ancient beliefs of my ancestors, but the practice of ATRs in America is beginning to frustrate me. My 3 greatest frustrations are as follows:

1. THEY COST TOO DAMN MUCH! For example...Yoruba...divination costs between 15 and 60 dollars...no problem. But then (if you follow the traditional steps of Yoruba as practiced in the US) you must pay for your elekes, your warriors, your pot(s), one hand of Ifa, and anything else your Babalawo prescribes. These prices are each in the hundreds of dollars!!!!! One may pay 6 or 7 hundred dollars without being initiated (I won't even get into initiation prices). So, what about the brother who doesn't have the money to pay for these ceremonies. Is he then left out? Can he not participate in Yoruba ceremonies? Why should I be paying 300 for this and 500 for that? Bottom line other than paying more than a nominal fee for their time, and paying for materials for the ceremonies ...I shouldn't have to pay a damn thing!

2. I've met very few reliable (or honest) priests/priestesses. Other than being greedy, the priests I've dealt with have done things such as forget I was supposed to come see them (in other words, stood me up), as well as they simply have not taught me anything. For example, I was dealing with a brother who studied the sciences of KMT (Ex-Ausar Auset) who apparently knew a lot more than I. He said, call me and we'll set up a time when you can come to the house and I'll show you a few things. I'm thinking, cool...I'm about to get some good ish. The brother was NEVER available, doesn't return phone calls, and would make excuse after excuse about whatever he was dealing with. Same with the Vodun Priestess..."Have you been to my website? " "Yes, I have." "Well, you need to buy this and order this, and pay me to come down and set up your shrine." "Okay, but I know a place I can get these materials much cheaper than the ones on your website. I'll get them there, then I will pay your travel fee." "No, you have to purchase all ceremonial materials off of my website" CLICK!


3. There is no uniformity even among groups within the same religion. One Kemetic group believes the NTR were Gods, one believes they were God-like Hue-mans. One Ile requires this ceremony with this pot, one Ile does not use pots, one Ile has a communal pot and communal shrines. Etc. Etc. Etc. How can one feel they are receiving the true spirituality if this group says that one is wrong and vice versa. Then you have what I have called, the Battle of the Babas. Baba X says Baba Y ain't real because he does this and that. Baba Y says Baba X ain't real because he never went to Ile Ife. I could have stayed Christian for that kinda bullshit! LOL!


So what do I have to do, travel to Africa to find the true practices of ATRs as they were intended, right? Maybe I will one day. But until then, who do I trust? I'm just frustrated as hell with ATRs. I will continue my journey, but I will not pay another dime for something I feel is ridiculous, and I will not show deference to another priest/priestess.

(Announcer Voice)
*This has been another Afro-rant, payed for by 250 dollar ilekes, a 300 dollar Ogun pot,a 350 dollar Owofakan, and books and amulets out the ass.*

Brother Afro I feel your frustration. You dont have to be initiated into the systems to worship or do the works.

A dear brother told me that it is custom to pay a bablawo or Iyanifa because of the personal time we take from their daily lives. I dont think it is condusive for a spiritual head to work a "regular job" so for the most part we are paying ffor their living expenses to an extent.

Brotha im broke as hell but I wanna get my warriors and my first hand also. Im patient because Olodumare has given me exactley what I have worked for and what I "deserve".

Dont give up on the ATR's, it is up to the individual to let people see their GOd in their eye's.

I just made a comment on a post about Juanita Bynum about there are bad people in ALL religions, ATR'S included who prostitute the legacy of our ancestors. It is up to us to purify that!

I had and still have MAD question because I don't wanna be used.

Someone told me that when we are initiated we are like babies all over again. this may play part in my suspicions.

Originally Posted by AfroNinpo

So what do I have to do, travel to Africa to find the true practices of ATRs as they were intended, right? Maybe I will one day. But until then, who do I trust? I'm just frustrated as hell with ATRs. I will continue my journey, but I will not pay another dime for something I feel is ridiculous, and I will not show deference to another priest/priestess.

The funny thing is they are initiating oyimbo (whites) and homosexuals in Nigeria and Benin!! And as long as you got the loot, u can be initiated by most back home. Religion is big business as u well know.

Who do u trust? Olodumare and your Ori (head)!! They never lie my brotha!!

Uhuru Sasa

[Warrior Princess]

Originally Posted by AfroNinpo

I love my roots and I love the ancient beliefs of my ancestors, but the practice of ATRs in America is beginning to frustrate me. My 3 greatest frustrations are as follows:

1. THEY COST TOO DAMN MUCH! For example...Yoruba...divination costs between 15 and 60 dollars...no problem. But then (if you follow the traditional steps of Yoruba as practiced in the US) you must pay for your elekes, your warriors, your pot(s), one hand of Ifa, and anything else your Babalawo prescribes. These prices are each in the hundreds of dollars!!!!! One may pay 6 or 7 hundred dollars without being initiated (I won't even get into initiation prices). So, what about the brother who doesn't have the money to pay for these ceremonies. Is he then left out? Can he not participate in Yoruba ceremonies? Why should I be paying 300 for this and 500 for that? Bottom line other than paying more than a nominal fee for their time, and paying for materials for the ceremonies ...I shouldn't have to pay a damn thing!

2. I've met very few reliable (or honest) priests/priestesses. Other than being greedy, the priests I've dealt with have done things such as forget I was supposed to come see them (in other words, stood me up), as well as they simply have not taught me anything. For example, I was dealing with a brother who studied the sciences of KMT (Ex-Ausar Auset) who apparently knew a lot more than I. He said, call me and we'll set up a time when you can come to the house and I'll show you a few things. I'm thinking, cool...I'm about to get some good ish. The brother was NEVER available, doesn't return phone calls, and would make excuse after excuse about whatever he was dealing with. Same with the Vodun Priestess..."Have you been to my website? " "Yes, I have." "Well, you need to buy this and order this, and pay me to come down and set up your shrine." "Okay, but I know a place I can get these materials much cheaper than the ones on your website. I'll get them there, then I will pay your travel fee." "No, you have to purchase all ceremonial materials off of my website" CLICK!


3. There is no uniformity even among groups within the same religion. One Kemetic group believes the NTR were Gods, one believes they were God-like Hue-mans. One Ile requires this ceremony with this pot, one Ile does not use pots, one Ile has a communal pot and communal shrines. Etc. Etc. Etc. How can one feel they are receiving the true spirituality if this group says that one is wrong and vice versa. Then you have what I have called, the Battle of the Babas. Baba X says Baba Y ain't real because he does this and that. Baba Y says Baba X ain't real because he never went to Ile Ife. I could have stayed Christian for that kinda bullshit! LOL!


So what do I have to do, travel to Africa to find the true practices of ATRs as they were intended, right? Maybe I will one day. But until then, who do I trust? I'm just frustrated as hell with ATRs. I will continue my journey, but I will not pay another dime for something I feel is ridiculous, and I will not show deference to another priest/priestess.

(Announcer Voice)
*This has been another Afro-rant, payed for by 250 dollar ilekes, a 300 dollar Ogun pot,a 350 dollar Owofakan, and books and amulets out the ass.*

*Ahem* I hope this thread doesn't disappear under mysterious (*cough*suspect) circumstances. You are talking about things that simply NEED to be addressed yet seem to be conviently and chronically avoided.............. I'm tempted to copy this so that I can read it fully just in case it's not up the next time I come (Sometimes realness is dismissed as "Anti-Afrikaness"). You talk about pimpin' black ppl in da name of 'da Lode and yes BUN DAT! But you talk about pimpin' black ppl in 'da name of ATR and it's an unspeakable abomination or at the very least a berry, berry bad and Anti-Afrikan thing to do.

*This has been another Afro-rant, payed for by 250 dollar ilekes, a 300 dollar Ogun pot,a 350 dollar Owofakan, and books and amulets out the ass.*

U funny no heck.

Anyway, I'm going to read the whole of it now.

[Warrior Princess]

Well AfroNinpo, I read your thread and the thing I wonder most is why aren't more people -who are not in fear and do not feel spiritually inferior as a result of mere titles -speaking up about it? I mean, this is just the MATERIALISTIC aspect... It's not like it went deeper into the spiritual abuse and the ridiculous things going on in the name of '" 'Da Ancestors"" (whose counterpart is is the name of " 'Da Lode"). So even just dealing with how black people are financially being pimped in the name of ATR, why are so few people actually dealing with it? (Once again, talking about Pulpit Pimpin' is commonplace, but ATR pimpin' seems to be a non-issue.) At least you can laugh about it though, not being pimped to the point of poverty (don't think it's not happening) or at least being pimped while ALREADY in poverty (it is HAPPENING!) Like throwing scraps at a stray cat... It keeps them coming back and it also keeps them at a level of starvation. But these are not "cats" we're talking about.. They're people.. Black people. Our people!

I really would like to see what ppl have to say about these things...

[Sublimelight]

Htp,

Ninpo, I feel you on this issue within our community. Welcome to Babylon the great, where everything and I do mean everything is for sale.

I have seen some wicked things in the name of Afrikan Traditional Rights/Rituals. yevoh's (pale pink drop-out's) been buying our traditions, and our priests/priestess because they got greenbacks but they do not have ASHE because they do not have the NOMMO (formula). They are every where in our traditions AKAN, DAGARA, IBO, DAHOMEY, NAGO, CONGO, KHEMETIC,...) They are "playin African", just like they be "playin Indian" or any other group in the hue-man family. Now that ATR's are in style you are going to see some serious pimp action, particulary since yt(energy vampire) done showed up with wallets and purses overflowing.

I am sick of Afrikan people using our people's Restoration and Reparation back to Afrikan Spiritual Frames of Reference for capitalist purposes. We see them all over trying to get and grow clientale for profit. You are right, we must speak out about this. As an answer for you trust Ori and consult your kuvito/eggun because they surround you and are for you.

This is a respone:
1) If they not using our spirituality to advance, uplift and secure the Afrikan community, then they are suspect!
2) Any Afrikan who has sold or is currently sale-ing our ATR"S to yt(energy vampires) is suspect, beware of the Negro spiritual capitalist!
3) If their immediate surroundings are full of chaos, and dis-harmony they are suspect!
4) You have the right and responsibility as a member of the Afrikan community to speak up and out and call our spiritual people to the question of their impact on the hearts, minds, spirits, bodies, and wallets/pocketbook's of our community.

Thank you for calling the question. We need an airing of this situation, for real.

Shm htp,

Sister Chari

[Im The Truth]

WOW!! You might want to call me and let me know who you dealing with cuz I never had any of these problems and we live in the same city. I only know of one Baba who charges a lot in ATL and that African is the head spokesmen for Ifa on the planet. Wande Abimbola, is the Awise Awo Agbaye ("World Spokesperson for Ifá and Yoruba Religion"). It's kinda crazy because he is an extremely nice person and mays difficult concepts simple.

About your point #3 about uniformity, ATR in general is not uniformed in a rigid sense like Middle Eastern religion i.e. Christianity, Islam, & Judaism. It is much more free with heavily emphasis on divination, Ancestor (your family specifically!) worship, and sacrifice (not animal sacrifice). Much of the other details are really for devotees/initiates and priest. The rest is basically up to you as an individual.

About your point #1, some of the stuff you are talking about is kinda crazy as I said at the beginning you might wanted to give me a call about that. But as far as cost is concern you are expected to pay for what is prescribed for you in divination for sacrifice. If you can't pay for the stuff you can delay the sacrifice until you can pay. Also the Baba might have some of the difficult things to offset your cost. In addition I'd be surprised if anything would come up to that much until there is something being made or there is a serious problem or something.

Forward!

Originally Posted by AfroNinpo

I love my roots and I love the ancient beliefs of my ancestors, but the practice of ATRs in America is beginning to frustrate me. My 3 greatest frustrations are as follows:

1. THEY COST TOO DAMN MUCH! For example...Yoruba...divination costs between 15 and 60 dollars...no problem. But then (if you follow the traditional steps of Yoruba as practiced in the US) you must pay for your elekes, your warriors, your pot(s), one hand of Ifa, and anything else your Babalawo prescribes. These prices are each in the hundreds of dollars!!!!! One may pay 6 or 7 hundred dollars without being initiated (I won't even get into initiation prices). So, what about the brother who doesn't have the money to pay for these ceremonies. Is he then left out? Can he not participate in Yoruba ceremonies? Why should I be paying 300 for this and 500 for that? Bottom line other than paying more than a nominal fee for their time, and paying for materials for the ceremonies ...I shouldn't have to pay a damn thing!

2. I've met very few reliable (or honest) priests/priestesses. Other than being greedy, the priests I've dealt with have done things such as forget I was supposed to come see them (in other words, stood me up), as well as they simply have not taught me anything. For example, I was dealing with a brother who studied the sciences of KMT (Ex-Ausar Auset) who apparently knew a lot more than I. He said, call me and we'll set up a time when you can come to the house and I'll show you a few things. I'm thinking, cool...I'm about to get some good ish. The brother was NEVER available, doesn't return phone calls, and would make excuse after excuse about whatever he was dealing with. Same with the Vodun Priestess..."Have you been to my website? " "Yes, I have." "Well, you need to buy this and order this, and pay me to come down and set up your shrine." "Okay, but I know a place I can get these materials much cheaper than the ones on your website. I'll get them there, then I will pay your travel fee." "No, you have to purchase all ceremonial materials off of my website" CLICK!


3. There is no uniformity even among groups within the same religion. One Kemetic group believes the NTR were Gods, one believes they were God-like Hue-mans. One Ile requires this ceremony with this pot, one Ile does not use pots, one Ile has a communal pot and communal shrines. Etc. Etc. Etc. How can one feel they are receiving the true spirituality if this group says that one is wrong and vice versa. Then you have what I have called, the Battle of the Babas. Baba X says Baba Y ain't real because he does this and that. Baba Y says Baba X ain't real because he never went to Ile Ife. I could have stayed Christian for that kinda bullshit! LOL!


So what do I have to do, travel to Africa to find the true practices of ATRs as they were intended, right? Maybe I will one day. But until then, who do I trust? I'm just frustrated as hell with ATRs. I will continue my journey, but I will not pay another dime for something I feel is ridiculous, and I will not show deference to another priest/priestess.

(Announcer Voice)
*This has been another Afro-rant, payed for by 250 dollar ilekes, a 300 dollar Ogun pot,a 350 dollar Owofakan, and books and amulets out the ass.*

[freedom4me]

1. THEY COST TOO DAMN MUCH! For example...Yoruba...divination costs between 15 and 60 dollars...no problem. But then (if you follow the traditional steps of Yoruba as practiced in the US) you must pay for your elekes, your warriors, your pot(s), one hand of Ifa, and anything else your Babalawo prescribes. These prices are each in the hundreds of dollars!!!!! One may pay 6 or 7 hundred dollars without being initiated (I won't even get into initiation prices). So, what about the brother who doesn't have the money to pay for these ceremonies. Is he then left out? Can he not participate in Yoruba ceremonies? Why should I be paying 300 for this and 500 for that? Bottom line other than paying more than a nominal fee for their time, and paying for materials for the ceremonies ...I shouldn't have to pay a damn thing!

greetings all

I haven't been initiated into anything, but do what I call "self-study" of the Yoruba tradition and the Kemetic tradition. I had a sister-friend very knowledgable who referred me to the very first ifa consult I had with a babalawo. one of the things she told me was that he didn't determine what he charged people. Ifa tells him what to charge.

I never forgot that. however, since then I've heard people comment that certain things are too high, too costly. One was this priestess-woman who said to me at the Million Woman March 'You all are paying too much for your initiations.' when I got home and looked at the flyer she gave me it had lucky lottery numbers on the bottom. LOL I mean I chuckled, but in a way it was not funny.

what i'm trying to say is even though my trusted friend told me what she did in the very beginning of my journey, what I've overheard people say or read makes me think that priest/tesses have some discretion or say so about what they charge hence, the high prices.

just as a sidebar, i always think about people who try to take advantage and make it up as they go along. why aren't they scared of the karmic backlash that they should know would be a coming?

let's keep up the good talk peeps

peace

[AfroNinpo]

Originally Posted by Kefentse_Bandele

Brother Afro I feel your frustration. You dont have to be initiated into the systems to worship or do the works.

No doubt, bruh. Due to my experiences thus far, I'm doubting I will get initiated.

Originally Posted by Kefentse_Bandele

A dear brother told me that it is custom to pay a bablawo or Iyanifa because of the personal time we take from their daily lives. I dont think it is condusive for a spiritual head to work a "regular job" so for the most part we are paying ffor their living expenses to an extent.

I don't mind that so much, but some things are just a little difficult for me to understand. I mean, in Africa, the Babalawos are taken care of by the village. They're not given money (traditionally). They are fed, clothed, and housed by the people THEY serve. That makes more sense to me. Now, I understand here in the states, that wouldn't work as well, so we have to make our contributions otherwise. But when I learned that the Baba who's family I have been studying with opened a business from initiation money...I had a problem with that. Traditionally, Babas live a humble life...but when I see the Babalawo in street clothes that would put a 'hood rich' brother to shame...I question that.

Originally Posted by Kefentse_Bandele

Brotha im broke as hell but I wanna get my warriors and my first hand also. Im patient because Olodumare has given me exactley what I have worked for and what I "deserve".

Word Up! But the Babas I know will give you anything you can afford. He smelled blood the day I went for my reading. I had just cashed my check the day I went for my divination, so I pulled out one of those white bank envelopes with a lot of money in it. He saw that, and it felt like the mood changed immediately. It turned from "let me know when you're ready for the next step" to "you need to come back next week for THIS and THIS and THIS and THIS...but it all costs!" I didn't listen to my instincts and paid for it (literally) in the end.

Originally Posted by Kefentse_Bandele

Dont give up on the ATR's, it is up to the individual to let people see their GOd in their eye's.

I'm trying, bruh! I promise I am!

Originally Posted by Kefentse_Bandele

I just made a comment on a post about Juanita Bynum about there are bad people in ALL religions, ATR'S included who prostitute the legacy of our ancestors. It is up to us to purify that!

True. Its just that they have earned the trust of so many of us. So much so that the blind begin to protect the guilty.

Originally Posted by Kefentse_Bandele

I had and still have MAD question because I don't wanna be used.

You mean like I was? I found out from another Baba that the Baba that I was dealing with has a long history of tricking non-Nigerians into believing they are recieving the real tradition and charging us astronomically along the way. When I sought him out, I didn't know enough to know if I was being used or not.

Originally Posted by Kefentse_Bandele

Someone told me that when we are initiated we are like babies all over again. this may play part in my suspicions.

I can understand that as long as I'm actually LEARNING something. But he was just like..."You need to get your Ogun pot so you can begin to work with your head." So, I came and he prepared it for me, but I didn't learn ANY prayers or invocations. He was just like, "Ring this bell and ask for what you want." Another Baba I talked to LAUGHED when I told him that. But, I'm like...if I don't know any better, I'm going to believe whatever he tells me. So, if I am to be a child again...TEACH ME!

Originally Posted by Kefentse_Bandele

The funny thing is they are initiating oyimbo (whites) and homosexuals in Nigeria and Benin!! And as long as you got the loot, u can be initiated by most back home. Religion is big business as u well know.

Funny is the wrong F word to use, bruh! lol

Originally Posted by Kefentse_Bandele

Who do u trust? Olodumare and your Ori (head)!! They never lie my brotha!!

Uhuru Sasa

Good looking out!

[AfroNinpo]

Originally Posted by Warrior Princess

Well AfroNinpo, I read your thread and the thing I wonder most is why aren't more people -who are not in fear and do not feel spiritually inferior as a result of mere titles -speaking up about it? I mean, this is just the MATERIALISTIC aspect... It's not like it went deeper into the spiritual abuse and the ridiculous things going on in the name of '" 'Da Ancestors"" (whose counterpart is is the name of " 'Da Lode"). So even just dealing with how black people are financially being pimped in the name of ATR, why are so few people actually dealing with it? (Once again, talking about Pulpit Pimpin' is commonplace, but ATR pimpin' seems to be a non-issue.) At least you can laugh about it though, not being pimped to the point of poverty (don't think it's not happening) or at least being pimped while ALREADY in poverty (it is HAPPENING!) Like throwing scraps at a stray cat... It keeps them coming back and it also keeps them at a level of starvation. But these are not "cats" we're talking about.. They're people.. Black people. Our people!

I really would like to see what ppl have to say about these things...

Creflo Baba AKA Baba Dollar is alive and well...they're following the paradigm left by the American televangelists.