It's an oldie, but a goodie.
Here's some excerpts from the broadcast:
Charlie Rose: (to Lars) What is it about this, gimme the essence, why this is for you such a bad thing that you want to stop it?
Lars: In essence it's about control. It's about controlling what you own. We clearly own songs, we own the master recording to those, and we want to be the ones' to control the use of those on the Internet. That's it in essence. So we are going after Napster legally in legal form but at the same time, which has become increasingly important to us, is to try and get this debate out into the public forums. Try and make people understand what's at stake here and what the ramifications are if this is something that is not dealt with and guided into some sort of parameter that makes the artist, the service providers, and the fans out there happy.
Charlie Rose: And people would say just this point. You say about the new technological development, that what you guys are trying to do is stop technology and you can't do that and there's no way you can do that.
Lars: And we're aware of that of course. What we're doing is being the first artists to step forward and put our foot down and say wait a minute, time out for a second. Lets just sit down and deal with this and get both a public debate going on how to control this in the future and also in the course of a legal form go after Napster and show to the other upstart companies out there who provide similar services that if you are going to do this you are going to have people like Metallica with very deep pockets who are very tenacious and who are very emotionally involved in trying to fight this on your back all this time, and whether that's something you are willing to continue pursuing.
Charlie Rose: People say just again your very point. They say you've got such deep pockets, music has been so good to you, you've got so much great music that so many people love, why worry that a few people are getting a few free copies.
Lars: Right now it's really not about the money. It's about control and about the future. The money that's being lost right now is pocket change. To me the core issue is about people's perception of the Internet, people's perception of what their rights are as an Internet user and how it relates to intellectual property.
Charlie Rose: Even when they're not gonna sell it - when it's for personal use - none of that is gonna matter in the end, it's about control?
Lars: In the end it's about control. Part of what we are trying to do here is make people understand what they are doing is illegal. I'm not even gonna get into the moral issue, that it's illegal.
Charlie Rose: Because its theft of property.
(to Chuck D)
Your an artist, Public Enemy, you don't want your music being taken off [Napster]?
Chuck D: Well I look at Napster as just being a version of new radio. I look at, with all due respect to Lars and Metallica, they have an issue where they own their masters and they want to talk about control of their realm which is warranted and granted indeed, but they are the exception to the rule. I think the degree of artistry over the last fifty to sixty years has proven that the music business has been the one in control of an artists destiny, throwing them, in throwing them out, and right now this war goes beyond their heads. This is like the power goes back to the people. Cause the industry over the past fifty to sixty years has been Accountant and Lawyer driven and it hasn't been about the artistry. I look at Napster, or the connection between file sharing, which this is, as power going back to the people. I also look at this as a situation where the industry had control of the technology and therefore the people were subservient to that technology at whatever price range the people have to pay for it.
Charlie Rose: So where does the people's power stop? Where do the say "look I built a life developing my art, defining my craft, meshing talent, and producing a product and now you want to say to me everybody that can download off of the Internet has a right to my product"?
Chuck D: You brought up the point yourself that even in 1967 when fm radio came about that the quality of the sound would take away for the artists sales points, when cassette recorders came in it was 'aw their gonna rob and take away from the sales' and this has proven to be contrary to what has happened, as a matter of fact it's a super turbo booster to the industry. What has happened now is that computers have allowed the Internet to expose music throughout the world a greater exposure point. And for an industry that's prided itself off the enthusiasm of the fans it's really funny to see them try to put their hands up and say well this is the biggest thing since the Beatles but we have to stop it until it gets regulated.
Lars: My analogy is the book of the month club situation. Where if you get a book in your mail box and if you don't go through the trouble of sending it back you have to pay. What Napster could have done was go to the artist and say "we're starting this service, we're providing this service" and allowed the artist the opportunity to say "yes thank you" or "no thank you".
Chuck D: Clearly you can't beat technology each and every time. And I would counter that exposure to that product will still drive the fan base to go pick up that product and still contribute to that bottom line. The whole paradigm of the music industry is changing because there's another parallel music world to the one that has been dominated by the old rules. The former rules are out of the door like an old baseball game. The new rules are music sharing, music distribution, music exposure are now globalized. I take it to like okay your in the outfield, it's raining but the ump says "play ball" anyway. You know that to catch a fly a ball you gonna have to run different on the wet grass. So your not gonna be able to beat the technology.
Charlie Rose: Let me ask you. You're in the movie business right?
Chuck D: I do scores I'm not in the movie business.
Charlie Rose: Suppose you make a movie and we get the capacity to download the movie, and you finance the damn movie, and you hire the actors and you score it, and you go out and you bring the musicians in. And I'm sitting there at my Internet site and somebody makes it so that I can download your movie. and I'm not gonna go to the theater and I'm not gonna buy a cassette, and I'm not gonna buy a DVD, and I'm gonna take my equipment and I'm gonna download that sucker.
Chuck D: I know not to invest too much into that film. I can't have the accountants mentality of counting what wasn't there in the first place, the accountant mentality is 'Oh you could've, you should've' and now the terrain is totally different.
Lars: Charlie I wish I could sit here and tell you it's about money. It's clear respectively we have different opinions on this, but I just believe...
Charlie Rose: It's about the control.
Lars: Yeah and what you were saying about in years, maybe five years, there will be software that can download movies. This goes everywhere; this goes literature, poetry, the whole nine yards. It really is about this perception about if it's intellectual do I have a right to it for free because technology allowed me to get it. And it's gonna throw commerce and the whole perception of this stuff on it's head. Does it mean that the only people you can't apply this to are people working in assembly lines.
Chuck D: But Lars I think it's beneficial to trigger off the enthusiasm of what's taking place. You got budding Metallica fans, and that will increase, but you got so many ancillary areas that you guys control that you won't be able to download that they have to come to you for. We have to look at the sound, as dominant as it was in the last fifty years, the industry controlling the hardware and making you also have the software, that you have to comply to both. That whole paradigm has changed. So now it has to be other ancillary areas and many artist will have the opportunity to interact with the global aspect of the world and the companies couldn't do that before. So now when we talk about control that a microcosm of what the big boys are gonna say...
Lars: I think that what you are saying is about record companies being these money hungry, greedy, blah blah blah, remember one thing; I can guarantee you that there is nobody at Napster that is doing this as a charitable event for all of mankind. There are investors behind Napster, and there are people sitting counting the days when Napster has an I.P.O. offering and they all make millions of dollars in return for their work.
Chuck D: But there's always gonna be the shadow of technology lurking over entertainment anyway.
Charlie Rose: Here's my point, when you say it's not about the money...
Lars: It's not about the money... now.
Charlie Rose: Somebody says, it's about the money.
Lars: That poses to be my counter argument. People say it's about greed for Metallica but it's reversible greed because you don't want to spend sixteen dollars for a CD that the market place...
Charlie Rose: Let me finish this point. The other point is you think this principle is so important that if there are some fans out there who are going to be alienated because you're leading the front, that you're saying... goodbye, we don't need you, we got enough fans.
Lars: It's not that, it's if you don't have enough respect for the fact that I believe this way and that I have a right to challenge it and try and make what's right for me then I don't want you as a fan.
Chuck D: I think that there are artists, whether they're in Oslo or the middle of the United States, who can't get signed or probably couldn't get signed because of the limitations of the music business. This actually expands that whole paradigm and I think that they will thrive on the new system as opposed to having to beg on the old system.
Lars: I'm not saying that they can't thrive on it. I'm saying that there's gotta be a way to make people who want to maintain control of their copyrighting material happy and in the same way make Napster available to people who want to use it.
Chuck D: Lars you got people out there who will buy your album even after they download it. why do you think Blockbusters are such big industry when they can tape off of HBO, CINEMAX, AND SHOWTIME.
Lars: I know that. I've talked to people who've said 'I downloaded your songs from Napster I went out and bought the record'. Wonderful, God bless you but does that mean I can't go after Napster...
Chuck D: Nobody's saying that.
Lars: ...I just think it's ignorant to say that just because you're taking away from the record industry and your handing over to all these other people that make available in a different way, that there's not gonna be the same profiteering from that.
Chuck D: You're not crying about the radio industry making their money...
Charlie Rose: Well let me say right now, thank you for coming here so that we could at least get this conversation going. What about you, do you have a solution to this other than full steam ahead for full access?
Chuck D: Well, it's a parallel world with a new paradigm taking place. We have to adapt to it. Like I said this conversation goes beyond Chuck and Lars. This is industry versus the people and the people got technology on their side and we gotta adapt.
Lars: When you say the industry versus the people you have to put in a third component, you have to talk about the service providers; they are an equal component in this game. It's not just the musicians and the fans and the industry. It's the potential service providers knocking on the doors with their new technologies is a big part of this game.
Chuck D: And the record companies would love to control them. Just like they would love to control radio and TV but...
See the whole arguement at the site provided.