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    1. #1
      nattyreb's Avatar
      nattyreb is offline Moderator

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      Mo Culture Banditry


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      http://www.sineadoconnor.com/

      (includes her nauseating re-do of "Marcus Garvey" by Burning Spear)
      "We must continue to move forward and do everything we can to outlaw legal lynching in America. We must continue to stand together in unity and to demand a moratorium on all executions. You must stay strong. You must continue to hold your heads up, and to be there. We will prevail. Keep marching Black people. They are killing me tonight. They are murdering me tonight." -- Excerpts of Last Words of Bro. Shaka Sankofa, an innocent man executed by the state of Texas, 6/22/00. www.myspace.com/nattyreb7

    2. #2
      Hue-Man's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by nattyreb
      http://www.sineadoconnor.com/

      (includes her nauseating re-do of "Marcus Garvey" by Burning Spear)
      Right now I dont even know what to make of that bullshit except that it's a jacking of our culture on some other level.

    3. #3
      MidWestGirl's Avatar
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      I used to say that white ppl could not, and should not sing


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      music created by blacks but I no longer believe that......As long as Sinade is coming from a pure place I don't see a damn thing wrong with that song......I am not a S.O fan but I respect the fact that she was one of the few singers that really seemed to speak her heart and mind. Being a victim of childhood sexual abuse I was impressed when she spoke out in protest of the sexual abuse that was accepted in the Catholic church.......most blacks (in America) are Baptist or other so it took more courage for a white person to do what she did on SNL back in the 90's.....IMO, AS LONG AS SHE AIN'T ON SOME ELVIS SHIT ITS COOL
      Living life to the fullest everyday...

    4. #4
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      i can understand your sentiments to a point. But when we're talking about white people singing about/quoting Marcus Garvey, then i *must* take issue. Our culture is pretty much up for grabs these days, it is the universal pulsebeat of everything in popular media. But our icons (i.e. Marcus Garvey) are ours alone, if she truly understood what she's attempting to represent (and i'm not letting Sly/Robbie off the hook either!) then she, along with the rest of whites, have to understand that there are certain lines they can never, ever cross and still receive any modicum of respect.

      Quote Originally Posted by midwestgirl
      music created by blacks but I no longer believe that......As long as Sinade is coming from a pure place I don't see a damn thing wrong with that song......I am not a S.O fan but I respect the fact that she was one of the few singers that really seemed to speak her heart and mind. Being a victim of childhood sexual abuse I was impressed when she spoke out in protest of the sexual abuse that was accepted in the Catholic church.......most blacks (in America) are Baptist or other so it took more courage for a white person to do what she did on SNL back in the 90's.....IMO, AS LONG AS SHE AIN'T ON SOME ELVIS SHIT ITS COOL
      "We must continue to move forward and do everything we can to outlaw legal lynching in America. We must continue to stand together in unity and to demand a moratorium on all executions. You must stay strong. You must continue to hold your heads up, and to be there. We will prevail. Keep marching Black people. They are killing me tonight. They are murdering me tonight." -- Excerpts of Last Words of Bro. Shaka Sankofa, an innocent man executed by the state of Texas, 6/22/00. www.myspace.com/nattyreb7

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      Quote Originally Posted by nattyreb
      i can understand your sentiments to a point. But when we're talking about white people singing about/quoting Marcus Garvey, then i *must* take issue. Our culture is pretty much up for grabs these days, it is the universal pulsebeat of everything in popular media. But our icons (i.e. Marcus Garvey) are ours alone, if she truly understood what she's attempting to represent (and i'm not letting Sly/Robbie off the hook either!) then she, along with the rest of whites, have to understand that there are certain lines they can never, ever cross and still receive any modicum of respect.
      S.O.'s political worlview might interject some context to this discussion. I am not much into the politics of Europe, however if her perception of herself is of an Irishwoman whose people have suffered the imperialistic brutality of European inperialism as the Irish have, then it would seem "natural" to her to look to leaders like Garvey to express her political views.

      I am ceatainly making no apologies for her, she can do that for herself. It is true that Garvey like each of us who are and are potential revolutionaries, what we express as ideology and philosophy though particular to African experience and ideals, will likely have universal "human" appeal.

      That said, we cannot restrict or resist whom our message touches, or moves. Africans are an oral, and musical people whose cadence and vibrations are in-tune with the rythm of the Ctreation. What we create and express will resonate beyond Africans, and our "culture," as the Most High Creation connected to the divine all-and-all will forever give birth to renewal in the Creation. What we "birth" has a life of its own.

      We Africans create so effortlessly, and increasingly unconsciously that we many times fail to appreciate our "works." I admit to being jealous when others appropriate our creativity and expression, though then what can we expect -WE ARE LIFE, and what we create is an expression of LIFE, and our creations too have a life of their own -sometimes outside of and away from we Africans who created it.

      I respect your sentiments, and overstand how you feel. Is your criticism/rejection of her artistic expression because she's white, the song sucks, or both? I'm interested to better understand your opinion and philosophy.

      Peace!
      "Humpty Dumpty was PUSHED"

    6. #6
      MidWestGirl's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by nattyreb
      i can understand your sentiments to a point. But when we're talking about white people singing about/quoting Marcus Garvey, then i *must* take issue. Our culture is pretty much up for grabs these days, it is the universal pulsebeat of everything in popular media. But our icons (i.e. Marcus Garvey) are ours alone, if she truly understood what she's attempting to represent (and i'm not letting Sly/Robbie off the hook either!) then she, along with the rest of whites, have to understand that there are certain lines they can never, ever cross and still receive any modicum of respect.
      I see your point as well, our culture seems to only be cool or "in" when its picked up and "white washed'' by others.....like the whole thing with Jennifer Lopez; big booty women were only in style in the confines of the inner city until she came out, then it became o.k; mainstream enough for a white guy or a well to do black man to admit openly that a voluptuous woman should be considerd sexy and not "just fat"......She had the skin tone and hair texture to get away with what sistas were always told to hide...The black asthetic is only accepted when shrouded in white skin......
      Living life to the fullest everyday...

    7. #7
      Mosi Ngozi's Avatar
      Mosi Ngozi is offline Pan-Afrikanist

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      I will give Sinead Oconner her props for her speaking out and about sexual abuse and the Catholic Church. Now as far as her Marcus Garvey re-mix by Burning Spear it is absolute garbage and should be treated as such. And the complete blame should not be placed all on her shoulders but it should also go Sly/Robbie for even asking her to jion the project.
      You are here because you know something,what you
      know you can't explain,but you feel it.You've felt it
      your entire life; that theres something wrong with the
      world.You don't know what it is but it's there; a
      splinter in your mind... the matrix




    8. #8
      nattyreb's Avatar
      nattyreb is offline Moderator

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      **STANDING OVATION!!** You are absolutely on point, midwestgirl!

      Quote Originally Posted by midwestgirl
      I see your point as well, our culture seems to only be cool or "in" when its picked up and "white washed'' by others.....like the whole thing with Jennifer Lopez; big booty women were only in style in the confines of the inner city until she came out, then it became o.k; mainstream enough for a white guy or a well to do black man to admit openly that a voluptuous woman should be considerd sexy and not "just fat"......She had the skin tone and hair texture to get away with what sistas were always told to hide...The black asthetic is only accepted when shrouded in white skin......
      "We must continue to move forward and do everything we can to outlaw legal lynching in America. We must continue to stand together in unity and to demand a moratorium on all executions. You must stay strong. You must continue to hold your heads up, and to be there. We will prevail. Keep marching Black people. They are killing me tonight. They are murdering me tonight." -- Excerpts of Last Words of Bro. Shaka Sankofa, an innocent man executed by the state of Texas, 6/22/00. www.myspace.com/nattyreb7

    9. #9
      nattyreb's Avatar
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      You really, really took your time with this, it definitely gives food for thought, and asante sana for it! i can very objectively understand and agree with the substance of your statement, but i think our basic difference of opinion on this topic is gonna meander somewhere around here:

      Quote Originally Posted by CreatorsCollege
      That said, we cannot restrict or resist whom our message touches, or moves.
      Restrict - perhaps not, as we are dedicated to the free flow of *righteous* information. But how *righteous* is that message when spewn forth from the mouth of one whom Garvey himself would not have appreciated for doing so? There is a very clear distinction between the message and the messenger: Garvey was not a "one love" type of Brotha, as you know.

      The question becomes, in my mind, if the messenger has any impact on the message being delivered. Even in today's discussions about the responsibility of the bling-blingers' messages on our and our youth's subsconscious, rightly or wrongly as it pertains to the "artist's" everyday real life existence, their art imitates, and is perceived, as life. Regardless of what Sinead experienced in her own struggles, it cannot parallel that which Garvey was addressing as it was very particularly dealing with UP YE MIGHTY RACE! It can't be made into an apples vs. oranges type thing, it's too, too deep into the DNA of we and our ancestors.

      Bottom line is that Sinead O'Connor cannot hope to attempt to express the teachings of Hon. Marcus Garvey, no better than anyone outside of the very unique circumstances the melanin-blessed find themselves withering (or blossoming) under each and every day. It's blasphemic to me, and denotes a common trend among the white "conscious" folx, which is their oft-times refusal to recognize that there are just some roads they dare not trod upon when it comes to our legacy, then and now.

      I respect your sentiments, and overstand how you feel. Is your criticism/rejection of her artistic expression because she's white, the song sucks, or both? I'm interested to better understand your opinion and philosophy.
      i respect your sentiments as well and your seeking clarity. My criticism, rejection, and repulsion of whatever she calls herself doing is based mostly on the Philosophies and Opinions of the man, Garvey, himself. It basically is something one *feels*, it either feels really wrong, or it can, as proven by those responses shared here, be an OK thing. i hope i've clarified my disgust with this woman's choice of topic to promote herself (BTW, i saw her perform recently on one of those late night talk shows with Sly & Robbie, so i'm sure you'll catch a video or something soon). Oh, and yeah, i think her version of the music sucks, too.
      "We must continue to move forward and do everything we can to outlaw legal lynching in America. We must continue to stand together in unity and to demand a moratorium on all executions. You must stay strong. You must continue to hold your heads up, and to be there. We will prevail. Keep marching Black people. They are killing me tonight. They are murdering me tonight." -- Excerpts of Last Words of Bro. Shaka Sankofa, an innocent man executed by the state of Texas, 6/22/00. www.myspace.com/nattyreb7

    10. #10
      nattyreb's Avatar
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      We are eye to eye on this one.

      Quote Originally Posted by bigdaddiej
      I will give Sinead Oconner her props for her speaking out and about sexual abuse and the Catholic Church. Now as far as her Marcus Garvey re-mix by Burning Spear it is absolute garbage and should be treated as such. And the complete blame should not be placed all on her shoulders but it should also go Sly/Robbie for even asking her to jion the project.
      "We must continue to move forward and do everything we can to outlaw legal lynching in America. We must continue to stand together in unity and to demand a moratorium on all executions. You must stay strong. You must continue to hold your heads up, and to be there. We will prevail. Keep marching Black people. They are killing me tonight. They are murdering me tonight." -- Excerpts of Last Words of Bro. Shaka Sankofa, an innocent man executed by the state of Texas, 6/22/00. www.myspace.com/nattyreb7

    11. #11

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      Quote Originally Posted by nattyreb
      You really, really took your time with this, it definitely gives food for thought, and asante sana for it! i can very objectively understand and agree with the substance of your statement, but i think our basic difference of opinion on this topic is gonna meander somewhere around here:



      Restrict - perhaps not, as we are dedicated to the free flow of *righteous* information. But how *righteous* is that message when spewn forth from the mouth of one whom Garvey himself would not have appreciated for doing so? There is a very clear distinction between the message and the messenger: Garvey was not a "one love" type of Brotha, as you know.

      The question becomes, in my mind, if the messenger has any impact on the message being delivered. Even in today's discussions about the responsibility of the bling-blingers' messages on our and our youth's subsconscious, rightly or wrongly as it pertains to the "artist's" everyday real life existence, their art imitates, and is perceived, as life. Regardless of what Sinead experienced in her own struggles, it cannot parallel that which Garvey was addressing as it was very particularly dealing with UP YE MIGHTY RACE! It can't be made into an apples vs. oranges type thing, it's too, too deep into the DNA of we and our ancestors.

      Bottom line is that Sinead O'Connor cannot hope to attempt to express the teachings of Hon. Marcus Garvey, no better than anyone outside of the very unique circumstances the melanin-blessed find themselves withering (or blossoming) under each and every day. It's blasphemic to me, and denotes a common trend among the white "conscious" folx, which is their oft-times refusal to recognize that there are just some roads they dare not trod upon when it comes to our legacy, then and now.



      i respect your sentiments as well and your seeking clarity. My criticism, rejection, and repulsion of whatever she calls herself doing is based mostly on the Philosophies and Opinions of the man, Garvey, himself. It basically is something one *feels*, it either feels really wrong, or it can, as proven by those responses shared here, be an OK thing. i hope i've clarified my disgust with this woman's choice of topic to promote herself (BTW, i saw her perform recently on one of those late night talk shows with Sly & Robbie, so i'm sure you'll catch a video or something soon). Oh, and yeah, i think her version of the music sucks, too.
      I "get" it. In the way that you explained it, I certainly do. My politics is ahead of my knowledge of history, and I find myself playing catch-up in a place with no library to speak of. I certainly am aware of Marcus Garvey, though I deed to educate myself on UNIA, and his teachings.

      Perhaps if I were a acquainted with his writings as you, I would have understood your point from the door!

      I'm that "C" stuedent who now must go back and "fill in the blanks," as I was all about the overview as a student. I am doubly 'shamed because I graduated from an HBCU -Lemoyne-Owen College.

      I appreciate the lesson, if it were not for this forum, ....

      Peace & Love!
      "Humpty Dumpty was PUSHED"

    12. #12
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      The UNIA (Universal Negro Improvement Association) has sites, i'm sure we're linked to the main one but if not, Google will definitely get you there. We have a strong Rep of the Org. here in our membership (Sis. Tyree). Also, there's a short book called "Message to the People" (or something real similar) i'll try and get an exact title if nobody else chimes in, but to get the real meat and potatoes, you'll need the green book, the Philosophies and Opinions of Marcus Garvey. Never stop questioning, it's vital!!

      Quote Originally Posted by CreatorsCollege
      I "get" it. In the way that you explained it, I certainly do. My politics is ahead of my knowledge of history, and I find myself playing catch-up in a place with no library to speak of. I certainly am aware of Marcus Garvey, though I deed to educate myself on UNIA, and his teachings.

      Perhaps if I were a acquainted with his writings as you, I would have understood your point from the door!

      I'm that "C" stuedent who now must go back and "fill in the blanks," as I was all about the overview as a student. I am doubly 'shamed because I graduated from an HBCU -Lemoyne-Owen College.

      I appreciate the lesson, if it were not for this forum, ....

      Peace & Love!
      "We must continue to move forward and do everything we can to outlaw legal lynching in America. We must continue to stand together in unity and to demand a moratorium on all executions. You must stay strong. You must continue to hold your heads up, and to be there. We will prevail. Keep marching Black people. They are killing me tonight. They are murdering me tonight." -- Excerpts of Last Words of Bro. Shaka Sankofa, an innocent man executed by the state of Texas, 6/22/00. www.myspace.com/nattyreb7

    13. #13

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      Quote Originally Posted by nattyreb
      The UNIA (Universal Negro Improvement Association) has sites, i'm sure we're linked to the main one but if not, Google will definitely get you there. We have a strong Rep of the Org. here in our membership (Sis. Tyree). Also, there's a short book called "Message to the People" (or something real similar) i'll try and get an exact title if nobody else chimes in, but to get the real meat and potatoes, you'll need the green book, the Philosophies and Opinions of Marcus Garvey. Never stop questioning, it's vital!!
      Thanks. I've been to the UNIA site, and have found ALOT of information on Garvey and the association in the web. I have downloaded at least half a gig of documents on African philosophy and history. I also plan to begin learning Kiswahili, too.

      I'm adding the books that you suggested to my list of "send me's."

      Thanks again!
      "Humpty Dumpty was PUSHED"

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