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    1. #1
      tyydae's Avatar
      tyydae is offline Intense

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      Saul Initiated One Hell Of A Discussion


      0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
      Me and my husband went to see Saul in concert Wednesday. He was great.

      Thursday evening, I drove to Chandler, Arizona to listen to him perform spoken word. I recorded bits and pieces of him discussing everything from his song "List of Demands" being used in a Nike commercial to Christianity.

      He spoke about the war, the past, our vulnerability, blacks ability to overcome and move past, and his children. I know I'm missing quite a few things.

      Anyways, I went back home and my husband and I listened to the recording. Afterwards, we laid on the floor and engaged in a two hour discussion about everything we had heard from Saul in the last two days.

      My husband said a lot of things that blew my mind. He never ceases to amaze me...honestly. He will not vote for a president. He will however vote locally. He always has. He remains firm on this issue.

      The one thing that he does not believe is that we are one. He seems to believe that most white people are only willing to deal with token black kids. Including the whites people that are avid listeners of Saul. They will not go any further. After that a barrier is in place.

      He also believes that in order to bridge the gap between whites and non-whites, non-whites are going to be the ones required to do most of the letting go. Most of the forgetting. They are going to be the ones embracing ways that are not theirs. In addition to it all, he wants to know how can you forgive a person if they have not attempted to make right their wrongs.

      I wanted to know why Saul had a predominantly white fan base. He believes that young white people love listening to black people sing/write/rap about going against the system. Nothing more, nothing less. He wanted to know how many of Saul fans were actively doing something to build bridges with non-whites. Engaging in dialogue with people that did not look like them. Were trying to connect the disconnected.

      I feel asleep on this "many are called but few are chosen. No, I am not a christian.
      Peace!

    2. #2
      Jalili's Avatar
      Jalili is offline Continuing the Fight

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      Sounds like your husband knows what he's talking about

      White people are just looking for ways to fit in with us since they have nothing better to do and don't have that power to control us so they just latch on to the first black voice they can.........you see how many are out and ready to vote for Obama so they can fit in somewhere.
      "We may be investigated, incarcerated or murdered for the things we dare to write...
      But we are young and Black, fearless and free...
      Every poem, every incandescent word is a personal revolution"
      Celeste "ayasha" Golden (my queen rest well and I'll see you when I get there.)
      http://awrittenlifeapoeticsoul.blogspot.com/
      http://justiseverything.blogspot.com/

    3. #3
      tyydae's Avatar
      tyydae is offline Intense

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      Raha,

      that was totally inappropriate. How did announcing Rising Up" by The Roots ft. Wale and Chrisette Michele fit in with this topic?

      BTW, what are your thoughts on this topic?
      Peace!

    4. #4
      Raha's Avatar
      Raha is offline Be EASY.

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      0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
      Quote Originally Posted by tyydae View Post
      Raha,

      that was totally inappropriate. How did announcing Rising Up" by The Roots ft. Wale and Chrisette Michele fit in with this topic?

      BTW, what are your thoughts on this topic?
      My mistake! I thought I was posting it in the "what are you listening to" thread. I forgot that they moved it.

      Sorry for the mix-up.
      Pyrrhic Victory (New songs are up!): http://www.reverbnation.com/pyrrhicvictory

      Some people take themselves WAY TOO SERIOUSLY, when in actuality, no one else is really taking them as seriously as they think.

    5. #5
      Raha's Avatar
      Raha is offline Be EASY.

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      I think your husband made a lot of valid points. In fact, I didn't see much of his arguement that I disagreed with.

      In fact...he's on POINT! White privilege rears its ugly head time and time again, and your husband pointed that out eloquently. You can basically do a "fill in the blank" with ANY Black artist (conscious or not) and it would fit in terms of why whites like listening to black music.
      Pyrrhic Victory (New songs are up!): http://www.reverbnation.com/pyrrhicvictory

      Some people take themselves WAY TOO SERIOUSLY, when in actuality, no one else is really taking them as seriously as they think.

    6. #6
      tyydae's Avatar
      tyydae is offline Intense

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      Here's a reply from a Young White Girl whose a Saul fan


      0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
      Here's a reply from a Young White Girl whose a Saul fan:

      sounds like a pretty heavy topic....um....well i'm 19 and white so i guess i fit this young white fan base you're speaking of

      why am i a fan of saul? well i can't resonate with all his words the same way the colored community would, for me it's his vibe and you can't deny his talent, when i listen to music, not all of the time but a good majority of the time i don't tend to listen to it for the genre, i focus more on the talent or at least the effort put into it, i'm not primarily a hip hop fan, i'm more of a electronica/house music fan, and i listen to industrial, and a lot of garage bands, and grunge strickly because it's very nostalgic to me, i like a lot of what came out of the 80's, no body had any fears of going outside the box and just being full on experimental, real ballsy moves, i think saul is pretty ballsy, i respect that, that aspect i can resonate with

      now i grew up in the suburbs...not too entirely diverse of an area, but i've never had any problems getting along with anyone colored....my best friend growin up was spanish, i dated a half black kid for 8 months when i was 15-16....shit, i even lost my v-card to him, i dunno, i guess different areas are different, i don't really know how to approach the topic now....

      ya know, every race has their negative stereotype and there are always people in every race to fit that stereotype, thats a lot of the reason i think that it makes things so hard to get past,
      i dunno if this is inappropriate to bring up or not but it's something that i have wondered about, i live basically 10 minutes from the sesame place theme park and a ton of my friends and pretty much everybody in the area can name atleast 10 or more ppl that they know who work there right off their head, so i have some good friend that have been workin there a 2-3 years and apparently they get bus loads of black teens from philly comin in that work there so from what i've been told many of the city kids aren't very respectful of their supervisors, i remember one story in particular where one girl was asked clean the ice cream machine or something along those lines at the end of the night, i guess part a normal part of her job, later the supervisor comes back, sees it wasn't done and asked her again and she started going on about not being their slave, i mean, i didn't see the incident happen but i've heard of many like cases, and i don't understand it at all, i know someone who worked in an arcade and they claimed that it always ended up insanely trashed when there was a rush colored people in there, i myself worked as a maid in a hotel last summer (don't ever take that job!) well as it turns out the messiest rooms that i cleaned were occupied by colored people....i'm sure there's gotta be the same kind of stories circlin bout whites but these few things i just don't understand, and these things do make it hard for whites to be open to accepting everyone too, and ya know, i know that the stereotypes don't account for everybody and i won't let these instances tarnish my ability to not judge a person so quickly but sadly other people can't get past these things...

      well thats my story...i'm sure it probably didn't do too much to anwser any questions...
      Peace!

    7. #7
      nattyreb's Avatar
      nattyreb is offline Moderator

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      0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
      i agree with your husband, Sista, particularly about the voting piece.

      This discussion reminds me of what i've heard/read over the years with many of our non-mainstream genres, the same could be said for jazz, reggae, soul, post-70's p-funk, etc., why the mostly white audiences. Unfortunately the majority of our folx here in the U.S. spend most of our time and energy on what we are fed through the normal rotation on radio and video 24/7, Clear Channel and the others count on us to do that and we never fail to disappoint! When i'm saying "we", i'm not tryna paint us all with a broad stroke, i know it doesn't include us all. Many of us don't explore the outer regions of where the sheeple are being herded as far as our arts/culture are concerned, it's like we only consume that which is approved for us by the imitators of us.

      Many whites actively seek out that which is the most genuine, unique and heartfelt of our offerings, such as our poets and more lyrically and politically potent musical artists. i think many of them are seeking something that's more authentic than what's widely available, they feel more daring the more angry (dangerous), the more Afrikan (wild), the more liquid (sexual). They used to sneak out to dance to "jungle music" (ala Hairspray, for example). So now they just have different choices and varied political views.

      That young white girl doesn't sound like she's absorbing much progressive politics with her limited experience with "colored" people. She could have kept that bit of mess to herself. Maybe she, too, is seeking to fit in with a certain "crowd" of white hipsters (in her NJ world).

      Bro. Del Jones wrote about this phenomenon extensively in his "culture bandits" series. Good topic, Sista!
      "We must continue to move forward and do everything we can to outlaw legal lynching in America. We must continue to stand together in unity and to demand a moratorium on all executions. You must stay strong. You must continue to hold your heads up, and to be there. We will prevail. Keep marching Black people. They are killing me tonight. They are murdering me tonight." -- Excerpts of Last Words of Bro. Shaka Sankofa, an innocent man executed by the state of Texas, 6/22/00. www.myspace.com/nattyreb7

    8. #8
      tyydae's Avatar
      tyydae is offline Intense

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      0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
      Here's another response from a white Saul Williams fan.


      I am a 28 year old white woman. I was introduced to Saul's poetry through a professor in the college of education at the University of New Mexico about five years. I just really related to him. It may seem strange that I would relate to him, especially since the poem was Sha-clack-clack, but he expresses what I want to say. I have always been adversly affected by oppresion and bigotry of any kind. I can't speak for white people because I dont understand them any more than any other group of people. I am kind of a loner really; I don't like to form into groups of people as the groups always seem elitest in one way or another. However, I do understand enough to know that the majority of injustice and racism is handed out to minorities. But I listen to Saul because he feeds me. I am some one who always fights for social justice and was to break down social barriers. As a result, I make a lot of people angry.
      Peace!

    9. #9
      tyydae's Avatar
      tyydae is offline Intense

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      0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
      Here's another response from a Saul Williams fan -this time a white male.

      I'm going to break this down so I can accurately respond to what you said and just keep on track because I will distract myself.

      quote:Originally posted by I am who I am:
      The one thing that he does not believe is that we are one. He seems to believe that most white people are only willing to deal with token black kids. Including the whites people that are avid listeners of Saul. They will not go any further. After that a barrier is in place.

      I think that the barrier between whites and blacks is primarily due to differences. I won't even list all of them, but I think that black people make white people uncomfortable because they're so open and comfortable with themselves, and white people are taught to refrain themselves, which leaves blacks thinking whites are uptight, and white people are wondering where the hell the black people learned their manners, not realizing it is merely a cultural difference. Also, I'm originally from Texas, so we really did just have our token black person around. I had ONE black friend growing up, period. When I was around them they were rude to me. They had their reasons I'm sure, but what impacted them negatively caused them to do the same to me, therefore repeating the vicious cycle instead of breaking it. Until we are more alike, or willing to try and find similarities and not differences, we will continue to remain separate, and will only be comfortable with our token black person.

      quote:Originally posted by I am who I am:
      He also believes that in order to bridge the gap between whites and non-whites, non-whites are going to be the ones required to do most of the letting go. Most of the forgetting. They are going to be the ones embracing ways that are not theirs. In addition to it all, he wants to know how can you forgive a person if they have not attempted to make right their wrongs.

      I do agree with this. Honestly, as a white person I am ashamed of what my ancestors have done to blacks and Native Americans, and anyone else I might be forgetting, but I personally donít feel like I should be held responsible for their actions. I wasnít even a gleam in my great-great-great-great-great grandfatherís eye, so why should I be held responsible for his actions?? I think itís only fair for the majority of whites to admit the wrong of their ancestors, and blacks to accept that the person they are dealing with had no part in it, and should not attempt to hold them responsible for something they didnít do.

      quote:Originally posted by I am who I am:


      I wanted to know why Saul had a predominantly white fan base. He believes that young white people love listening to black people sing/write/rap about going against the system. Nothing more, nothing less. He wanted to know how many of Saul fans were actively doing something to build bridges with non-whites. Engaging in dialogue with people that did not look like them. Were trying to connect the disconnected.

      Personally, I love any music that discusses going against the system, be it rock or hip-hop, and I think that depending on the song, Saul falls in between those two categories, if you want to try and label him. Iím a fan of Marilyn Manson, Saul, Public Enemy, Rage Against The Machine, System of a Down, etc. Itís not the pigment of skin that matters, itís the message behind the music and how it connects with my convictions and emotions. Itís not a matter of color here; itís a matter of how many black people are speaking out against the system today. Most that I encounter talk about their cars, bitches, money, and gold studded teeth with diamonds. It doesnít matter that Saul is black, it matters that weíre lacking in the number of black people that are actually heard that have something to say. Why there are, I wonít go into at this moment, but there are. Also, on the subject of bridging the gap, I do nothing, with anyone, of any race. I'm an introverted hermit, and don't know how to talk to anyone, so I do nothing.

      On a topic that was briefly discussed, I personally am not comfortable with the term ĎAfrican American.í Besides the fact, like someone said, not all blacks are from Africa, I believe in evolution, and science proves that we ALL evolved from Africa, therefore making everyone African to some extent.
      Peace!

    10. #10
      tyydae's Avatar
      tyydae is offline Intense

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      0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
      Here's another response. It was in response to someone being quoted

      quote:Originally posted by BelleMorte:


      I think that the barrier between whites and blacks is primarily due to differences. I won't even list all of them, but I think that black people make white people uncomfortable because they're so open and comfortable with themselves, and white people are taught to refrain themselves, which leaves blacks thinking whites are uptight, and white people are wondering where the hell the black people learned their manners, not realizing it is merely a cultural difference. Also, I'm originally from Texas, so we really did just have our token black person around. I had ONE black friend growing up, period. When I was around them they were rude to me. They had their reasons I'm sure, but what impacted them negatively caused them to do the same to me, therefore repeating the vicious cycle instead of breaking it. Until we are more alike, or willing to try and find similarities and not differences, we will continue to remain separate, and will only be comfortable with our token black person.

      i honestly never thought of it in this way before and it does make sense, but then again i don't see where 'openness' applies to manners, it would be nice to have an example, but on the subject of comfort and openness something i have noticed is the number of black teens, that will just be walking along by themself and be rappin or singing relatively loudly to themselves or sometimes they'll even just yell a random word out for seemimgly no reason, now turn the tables, if you saw a white person doin that wouldn't you think they're crazy? but for them it seems perfectly normal....i never understood why they do that, it throws me off gaurd everytime i see it happen


      quote:Originally posted by BelleMorte:

      I do agree with this. Honestly, as a white person I am ashamed of what my ancestors have done to blacks and Native Americans, and anyone else I might be forgetting, but I personally donít feel like I should be held responsible for their actions. I wasnít even a gleam in my great-great-great-great-great grandfatherís eye, so why should I be held responsible for his actions?? I think itís only fair for the majority of whites to admit the wrong of their ancestors, and blacks to accept that the person they are dealing with had no part in it, and should not attempt to hold them responsible for something they didnít do.

      i feel this way too, i'm sure tho, ya know blacks are growin up hearin in the history books that their ancestors were enslaved by whites and they've gotta be gettin pretty heated over hearing these stories, and whites are growing hearing that our ancestors enslaved blacks and we are just like gosh? we did that? thats horrible. but i can't say those stories make me hate blacks, but they sure don't make me feel like i'm responcible for it....i think it's basterds in the kkk and people like that teachin their kids to hate blacks that are gonna keep givin us a bad rep and whenever i run into someone racist like that i'm just like damn whats wrong with you?

      quote:Originally posted by BelleMorte:

      Personally, I love any music that discusses going against the system, be it rock or hip-hop, and I think that depending on the song, Saul falls in between those two categories, if you want to try and label him. Iím a fan of Marilyn Manson, Saul, Public Enemy, Rage Against The Machine, System of a Down, etc. Itís not the pigment of skin that matters, itís the message behind the music and how it connects with my convictions and emotions. Itís not a matter of color here; itís a matter of how many black people are speaking out against the system today. Most that I encounter talk about their cars, bitches, money, and gold studded teeth with diamonds. It doesnít matter that Saul is black, it matters that weíre lacking in the number of black people that are actually heard that have something to say. Why there are, I wonít go into at this moment, but there are. Also, on the subject of bridging the gap, I do nothing, with anyone, of any race. I'm an introverted hermit, and don't know how to talk to anyone, so I do nothing.

      and what the media chooses to promote as cool behavior still amazes me, the could choose to make ANYTHING look cool, but they choose behaviors that dumb down the youth and make them lazier, slutier, and materialistic and conceeded to look cool, they could choose any number of things to be 'the new cool' and young people? they would eat it up, because everyone feels that they want to have a place in the world, but these things that they have choosen dumb down the population, they do not make it look cool to be smart, in turn, no one is gonna care about putting in the effort to get educated, the dumber the population is, the easier our country can get away with tons and tons of shit without the people lashing back at them in the streets, they got us whipped, it's how they keep us in control, it's cool to be conceeded, the more conceeded and materialistic the more the population buys to keep up with trends so they fit in, so they feel they have their place in the world......it's ugly.
      Peace!

    11. #11
      Sourakhata's Avatar
      Sourakhata is offline Proud Son of West Afrika

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      0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
      Quote Originally Posted by nattyreb View Post
      i agree with your husband, Sista, particularly about the voting piece.

      This discussion reminds me of what i've heard/read over the years with many of our non-mainstream genres, the same could be said for jazz, reggae, soul, post-70's p-funk, etc., why the mostly white audiences. Unfortunately the majority of our folx here in the U.S. spend most of our time and energy on what we are fed through the normal rotation on radio and video 24/7, Clear Channel and the others count on us to do that and we never fail to disappoint! When i'm saying "we", i'm not tryna paint us all with a broad stroke, i know it doesn't include us all. Many of us don't explore the outer regions of where the sheeple are being herded as far as our arts/culture are concerned, it's like we only consume that which is approved for us by the imitators of us.

      Many whites actively seek out that which is the most genuine, unique and heartfelt of our offerings, such as our poets and more lyrically and politically potent musical artists. i think many of them are seeking something that's more authentic than what's widely available, they feel more daring the more angry (dangerous), the more Afrikan (wild), the more liquid (sexual). They used to sneak out to dance to "jungle music" (ala Hairspray, for example). So now they just have different choices and varied political views.

      That young white girl doesn't sound like she's absorbing much progressive politics with her limited experience with "colored" people. She could have kept that bit of mess to herself. Maybe she, too, is seeking to fit in with a certain "crowd" of white hipsters (in her NJ world).

      Bro. Del Jones wrote about this phenomenon extensively in his "culture bandits" series. Good topic, Sista!

      Nothing to add..! Except the 1st crakkka story is in itself a poor and barren stereotype! They love our music 'cause it's the best ever created, period.

      And no matter what game they play
      We got something they could never take away
      And it's the fire (fire), it's the fire (fire)
      That's burning down everything
      Feel that fire (fire), the fire (fire)
      No water could put out this fire (fire)



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