African Feminist?

[Kefentse_Bandele]

Because of the feminist movement, homosexuality was given tolerance, it weakened the Afrikan family unit, actually took away the right of a woman to be treated like woman. If fact, most women that are feminist act more like men than women, which ascribes the very misogynistic ideology of masculine superiority over femininity. Gender reversal is not the solution to social repression.

And this is the problem I have with the "NEW" homosexual male or female is their misinterpretation of what a man or a woman is supposed to be. The sistas feel if they dress with the saggin pants, hats turned aroung and smokin black and milds makes them a man while the MALE thinks portraying "feminine acts" is his sad interpretation of womanhood!!

Uhuru Sasa

[Baba Ahmed]

Life in euro controlled environments is going according to aims to turn night into day and day into night... i.e., to blur the natural lines between what has always been and will continue to be. A new nickname's present now: the "young and restless," re 25-34 year college educated with professional careers.

Restlessness is prime characteristic of YURUGU. But tell some of our young upward mobility Black folk to beware of not only what they seek but how and why this blurring of gender roles/identity marches on.

Po' Yurugu, blew his feminine principle at creation's beginnings and is destined to keep chasing after it. Our problem is ignorance of "The Way" tha Ayi Kwei Armah identifies. So we, many many of us, have also lost the way.

[w.i.s.e.]

It is a massive misrepresentation to think that women have neither started nor perpetuated any type of movements in our liberation process. Queen Hapshepsut, Nzigha, Kentake, all headed and perpetuated the kingdom idea. There are numerous other women rulers of Kemet as I understand. From my research the first understanding of a deity that we have ever had was in the form of a woman! We mus take into account the women revolutionaries, beginning with the sisters who fought off the portuguese, english, french, italians, and the other tribes of europe during colonial expansion, these sisters fought alongside of the brothers. We can trace history to the likes of Tubman, Queen Nanny of the maroons, Mary Mcleod Bethune, Maria Stewart and dear brothers let us not forget the mothers, sisters, aunts, cousins, play-cousins and the like who used machetes, forks, knives and sharpend sticks to bang on the real bitch called global aryanism! These women need shrines built specifically for them. How ironic that male-centric nonsense and chauvinist foolishness can still be dropped on a forum named, AssataShakur.org. Are we out of our minds? I have seen this foolishness long enough, I stand in open challenge to the so called men (read:pansies) who feel women are inferior and need to take a back seat position to them! Those who call themselves men but are not secure enough to sometimes take the back seat and all the time stand beside his woman are the inferior and should be relegated to the trash bin of history. Forgive my anger and candor but this stuff ticks me off as I look at my Afrikan wife (with her fine revolutionary self) with pride and fiery tears in my eyes.Then I look at my 3 ready to gun daughters and think that these are the men they must choose from? Men who exhibit this behavior I feel are a traitor to the race. Those of us who don't let's go and pick a fight with yt, right besides our QUEEN!

That was beautiful. You articulated all of what I wanted to say perfectly.

[w.i.s.e.]

It is a massive misrepresentation to think that women have neither started nor perpetuated any type of movements in our liberation process. Queen Hapshepsut, Nzigha, Kentake, all headed and perpetuated the kingdom idea. There are numerous other women rulers of Kemet as I understand. From my research the first understanding of a deity that we have ever had was in the form of a woman! We mus take into account the women revolutionaries, beginning with the sisters who fought off the portuguese, english, french, italians, and the other tribes of europe during colonial expansion, these sisters fought alongside of the brothers. We can trace history to the likes of Tubman, Queen Nanny of the maroons, Mary Mcleod Bethune, Maria Stewart and dear brothers let us not forget the mothers, sisters, aunts, cousins, play-cousins and the like who used machetes, forks, knives and sharpend sticks to bang on the real bitch called global aryanism! These women need shrines built specifically for them. How ironic that male-centric nonsense and chauvinist foolishness can still be dropped on a forum named, AssataShakur.org. Are we out of our minds? I have seen this foolishness long enough, I stand in open challenge to the so called men (read:pansies) who feel women are inferior and need to take a back seat position to them! Those who call themselves men but are not secure enough to sometimes take the back seat and all the time stand beside his woman are the inferior and should be relegated to the trash bin of history. Forgive my anger and candor but this stuff ticks me off as I look at my Afrikan wife (with her fine revolutionary self) with pride and fiery tears in my eyes.Then I look at my 3 ready to gun daughters and think that these are the men they must choose from? Men who exhibit this behavior I feel are a traitor to the race. Those of us who don't let's go and pick a fight with yt, right besides our QUEEN!

I must say once again: a beautiful post. I will speak from my heart and hope that others shall hear me fully.

The Assata Shakur forum will lose its purpose if people continue to perpetrate chauvenism and male supremacy. The very assertion that feminine power is dangerous to a community, the very assertion that equality in the realm of economics, social relations, and politics will be destroying the principles of the community is Eurocentric. The purpose of alleviating oppressing is to liberate Afrikan women. For Black feminism is Afrikan: it is the reassertion of a woman warrior's rightful place as a equal of that of her man and the destruction of patriarchy. Patriarchy and anti feminism is undermining the cause of liberation. Anyone who takes the position that women should not seek empowerment through womanism is taking a counterrevolutionary position. They are also politically immature, inadvertantly encouraging suppression of Afrikan women.

What would Assata, a Black feminist, think if she read this male supremacist, honky influenced horseshit?

That's certainly something to think about if we are to truly to say that we are fighting for the cause of liberation for ALL members of the collective.

[w.i.s.e.]

Life in euro controlled environments is going according to aims to turn night into day and day into night... i.e., to blur the natural lines between what has always been and will continue to be. A new nickname's present now: the "young and restless," re 25-34 year college educated with professional careers.

Restlessness is prime characteristic of YURUGU. But tell some of our young upward mobility Black folk to beware of not only what they seek but how and why this blurring of gender roles/identity marches on.

Po' Yurugu, blew his feminine principle at creation's beginnings and is destined to keep chasing after it. Our problem is ignorance of "The Way" tha Ayi Kwei Armah identifies. So we, many many of us, have also lost the way.

I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but I don't understand your post. Exactly what does that have to do with the thread?

[w.i.s.e.]

And this is the problem I have with the "NEW" homosexual male or female is their misinterpretation of what a man or a woman is supposed to be. The sistas feel if they dress with the saggin pants, hats turned aroung and smokin black and milds makes them a man while the MALE thinks portraying "feminine acts" is his sad interpretation of womanhood!!

Uhuru Sasa

What is a man/woman supposed to be? The very roles or images of what men and women are supposed to be are influenced by white people. You must understand that these ideas are not Afrikan. Now, the post you stated was sexist in the way that it advocated borders about what it means to be a man or a woman. This is decided by a patriarchal society. So your ideas about gender and how it relates to men and women is influenced by Eurocentric models of womanhood and what it means to be a woman, simply by the superficialities or dress she wears. What you don't realize is that you internalized the very thing that you want to destroy: Eurocentrism.

[Kefentse_Bandele]

What is a man/woman supposed to be? The very roles or images of what men and women are supposed to be are influenced by white people. You must understand that these ideas are not Afrikan. Now, the post you stated was sexist in the way that it advocated borders about what it means to be a man or a woman. This is decided by a patriarchal society. So your ideas about gender and how it relates to men and women is influenced by Eurocentric models of womanhood and what it means to be a woman, simply by the superficialities or dress she wears. What you don't realize is that you internalized the very thing that you want to destroy: Eurocentrism.

First and foremost, where did I explain my opinion of what the role of a man or woman is supposed to be for you to come in GUNZ A BLAZIN assuming they are white influenced.

Secondly, me a father of three daughter's sexist in any kind of way is flat out disrespectful and I challenge you on it!

Thirdly, isn't it egotistical as well as ass-uming for you to come to someone on a internet forum and from one post assume that "your ideas about gender and how it relates to men and women is influenced by Eurocentric models of womanood and what it means to be a woman." I dont know what it means to be a woman because im not a woman. Yet I do know basic duties that men and women have according to the principles applied to my life that have less to do with western life, than your post does with accuracy and facts.

My point was that it WAS a mental issue for a person to THINK that if he dressed "LIKE A WOMAN OR MAN" then his/her homosexuality would be solidified.

Why don't you realize that you barking up the wrong tree with your soap box bull.

P.S. Could you introduce me to the literature or document where Mama Assata said she was a feminist please?

[advanced]

I consider feminism, misogynistic proponents two extremes of the same spectrum. It is common for repress individuals to emulate their oppressor or become too reactionary to social sensitivities to the point of petty opposition. For example, the Million man march, was a gathering for men to teach men to be men. The sensitive social conditioning of women being left out and excluded lead some feminist to oppose it. That is an extreme reaction lacking rationale. Men and Women are equal in potential but have separate paths to manifest the same objective. I stand against feminism as it has been historically displayed. Because of the feminist movement, homosexuality was given tolerance, it weakened the Afrikan family unit, actually took away the right of a woman to be treated like woman. If fact, most women that are feminist act more like men than women, which ascribes the very misogynistic ideology of masculine superiority over femininity. Gender reversal is not the solution to social repression.

I agree, masculine superiority over femininity or feminine superiority over masculinity are both cancer seeds to Afrikan families. The male and female are two parts of the same unit. They have different powers and responsibilities but travel in the same direction and on equal footing. The feminist movement crates conflict in the home

[Kefentse_Bandele]

The feminist movement crates conflict in the home

Truth to power!!

This movement has absolutely nothing to do with being an African woman. White leading feminist over the years have abandoned African woman when they needed them most. What happened to Shirley Chisholm when she ran for president and NOW was supposed to support her? Not only did they abandoned her for a man, but they eventually abandoned her all together.

African people continuously get caught up in traps set by our enemied when we constantly look to define ourselves by foreign term and conditions. There is no way to tie feminism into African thought or norms. It is a western thought process. ANy attempt to apply it into what our foreparents were about is detrimental to the real struggle which is African liberation. Any other struggle outside of this is counter productive as well as counter revolutionary!


I'm quite sure Mama Assata would be proud of that.

Uhuru Sasa

[w.i.s.e.]

First and foremost, where did I explain my opinion of what the role of a man or woman is supposed to be for you to come in GUNZ A BLAZIN assuming they are white influenced.

Explain to me how they are not white influenced based on Afrikan principles.

Secondly, me a father of three daughter's sexist in any kind of way is flat out disrespectful and I challenge you on it!

My comment was not a personal affront to you nor your children. It was to comment on your views regarding feminism and your comment about homosexuality. I only challenged you on the stance because for me, it was influenced by other factors. I must also say that each man in this country is influenced by sexism, including Black men, and they must constantly fight against it. No man has an immunity to it, regardless of his personal or political station, even if consciously fighting against it. I also stated that the thinking that propagated the stance went along the lines of sexism.

Thirdly, isn't it egotistical as well as ass-uming for you to come to someone on a internet forum and from one post assume that "your ideas about gender and how it relates to men and women is influenced by Eurocentric models of womanood and what it means to be a woman." I dont know what it means to be a woman because im not a woman.

I wasn't being egotistical, brother. I was being honest as well as questioning the political assertions you were making in your posts. The ideas about there being one set of roles for each gender tie into the basic premise of

Yet I do know basic duties that men and women have according to the principles applied to my life that have less to do with western life, than your post does with accuracy and facts.

What are the basic duties of men and women and who influenced what the basic duties are?

My point was that it WAS a mental issue for a person to THINK that if he dressed "LIKE A WOMAN OR MAN" then his/her homosexuality would be solidified.

But look at the terminology you used again for a second time. Your comment went beyond how a brother or sister dressed:

I have a problem with the new homosexual male or female is their misrepresentation of what a man woman is supposed to be.


This was what made me question the comment. What is a man/woman supposed to be? And who influenced that view? When I hear someone say this, they usually go by the European view of what it means to be a woman and regard a woman's dress as being a symbol of femininity. Thus, I got a hint of influence other than it being Afrikan. You might not be conscious of it and certainly don't mean for it to come off that way, but it does.

This is a sad representation of womanhood!

Again, as I stated, what is womanhood, and who defines womanhood? And who is to say that a woman dressing another style from what is regarded to be appropriate for her sex deemed as being a misrepresentation of womanhood?

Why don't you realize that you barking up the wrong tree with your soap box bull.

All I'm doing is challenging your stance. We are supposed to be building. If your stance is completely different, you are free to correct me.

P.S. Could you introduce me to the literature or document where Mama Assata said she was a feminist please?

Hasn't sister Assata proclaimed times that she wishes to fight against sexism? That, in essence, is what Black feminism is about. It is not about fighting men. But rather it is about relating the struggle of liberation to us personally as women and building with brothers on a non patriarchal ground.

[w.i.s.e.]

This movement has absolutely nothing to do with being an African woman.

Of course it does. There is a difference between white feminism and Black feminism/womanism. Our womanism relates to equality in the economic, social, and political arena, building on issues that actively affect our community, and working towards a united front as Black people. It benefits the entire community. Nothing bad can come out of it. Only if it is misunderstood, there will be problems.

White leading feminist over the years have abandoned African woman when they needed them most. What happened to Shirley Chisholm when she ran for president and NOW was supposed to support her? Not only did they abandoned her for a man, but they eventually abandoned her all together.

Black feminism/womanism is not white feminism. White women are repressed while Black women are oppressed. I do not view my struggle as being the same as theirs. Black womanism is about our struggles and how it relates to liberation for our people overall. I say this: Black feminist struggle is liberation for the entire community and our reestablishment as Afrikan warrior women.

African people continuously get caught up in traps set by our enemied when we constantly look to define ourselves by foreign term and conditions. There is no way to tie feminism into African thought or norms.

What is the trap? We have mostly defined who we are gender wise according to a foreign system. Once we really study Afrikan principles, Black feminism/womanism is about community and bringing back human collectivity.

It is a western thought process.

But the misunderstanding of womanism and advocating patriarchal thought towards is a western thought process.

ANy attempt to apply it into what our foreparents were about is detrimental to the real struggle which is African liberation.

Our Ancestral mothers were the epitome of Black feminism/womanism. We've had a long history of it. Black feminist struggle is not the anti thesis of Afrikan liberation.

Any other struggle outside of this is counter productive as well as counter revolutionary!

The most revolutionary of sisters in the past have been active Black feminists. Sister Angela, Assata, Sojourner Truth, Francis Beale, Toni Cade Bambara, bell hooks, Pearl Cleage, and Ntzoke Shange have stated that the oppression of Black women must take the form of revolutionary Black feminism. In order to do that, Black men and women must not be threatened by women reclaiming that power, for it undermines our struggle as a whole. For be empowered as a womanist is purely Afrikan in that it is taking our community back to one of equality based on humanity, and the absence of patriarchy and oppression based on gender. Why would this not be considered Afrikan, when to be an Afrikan woman is to build on these principles in order to attain political freedom? To take the position as anything less is to be politically counterrevolutionary.

I will challenge those posters politically to their commitment as revolutionaries by their stance towards feminism and their understanding of it.

This is the power that Sister Assata was fighting for. For she was not only fighting for eradication of racism, she was fighting for the eradication of patriarchal thought as a Black woman.

[Kefentse_Bandele]

Explain to me how they are not white influenced based on Afrikan principles.

First of all, you display not a single priciple of African womanhood first and foremost by your arrogant approach. I don't have to explain what you believe to know. I don't challenge beliefs. I challenge your distorted views.

My comment was not a personal affront to you nor your children. It was to comment on your views regarding feminism and your comment about homosexuality. I only challenged you on the stance because for me, it was influenced by other factors. I must also say that each man in this country is influenced by sexism, including Black men, and they must constantly fight against it. No man has an immunity to it, regardless of his personal or political station, even if consciously fighting against it. I also stated that the thinking that propagated the stance went along the lines of sexism.

My comment wasn't about homosexuality. It was about how homosexuals misrepresent what they think a man or a woman should be. Not how "I" think a man or woman dresses. You challenge me because you felt you could. Not because you had an avenue to challenge. Your whole entire argument is based on assumptions and your own personal views of someone you've never met. Maybe all the men in YOUR family has been affected by sexism. But it does not serve you well to speak for a species that you have no experience in walking the walk of said species.

What are the basic duties of men and women and who influenced what the basic duties are?

To produce life...who influenced this you ask? Nature. It's a natural way of life. Nothing to do with fallin in love or silly learned emotional traits.

But look at the terminology you used again for a second time. Your comment went beyond how a brother or sister dressed:

I have a problem with the new homosexual male or female is their misrepresentation of what a man woman is supposed to be.


This was what made me question the comment. What is a man/woman supposed to be? And who influenced that view? When I hear someone say this, they usually go by the European view of what it means to be a woman and regard a woman's dress as being a symbol of femininity. Thus, I got a hint of influence other than it being Afrikan. You might not be conscious of it and certainly don't mean for it to come off that way, but it does.

I never said I had an opinion o this issue. Lemme make it simple so I don't have to type all night.

If a man puts on a dress and say's he's dressing like a woman, then that is a misinterpretation of how women dress. If a woman puts on a suit and feels she's dressing like a man then that's a misinterpretation of manhood.

Now if thats male chauvinist/sexist or what have you then that I am!!

Hasn't sister Assata proclaimed times that she wishes to fight against sexism? That, in essence, is what Black feminism is about. It is not about fighting men. But rather it is about relating the struggle of liberation to us personally as women and building with brothers on a non patriarchal ground.

I dont know you said it not me! Prove what you stand by sista.

Mama Assata has not claimed to be a feminist nor claimed to show support for the feminist movement because unlike most sistas in amerikkka, she sees through the bullshit of "feminism". Her philosophy is African Liberation hence the movement she was in called the Black Liberation Army. She knows the feminist movement is another tool by the enemy to separate the African woman from the African man in our efforts to be a free and liberated people.

The feminist movement has done as much for the African woman than the white man has. And that is screwed her with no vaseline and kicked back into the arms of her African man, or African woman these day's.

[Kefentse_Bandele]

Of course it does. There is a difference between white feminism and Black feminism/womanism. Our womanism relates to equality in the economic, social, and political arena, building on issues that actively affect our community, and working towards a united front as Black people. It benefits the entire community. Nothing bad can come out of it. Only if it is misunderstood, there will be problems.
Black feminism/womanism is not white feminism. White women are repressed while Black women are oppressed. I do not view my struggle as being the same as theirs. Black womanism is about our struggles and how it relates to liberation for our people overall. I say this: Black feminist struggle is liberation for the entire community and our reestablishment as Afrikan warrior women.
What is the trap? We have mostly defined who we are gender wise according to a foreign system. Once we really study Afrikan principles, Black feminism/womanism is about community and bringing back human collectivity.
But the misunderstanding of womanism and advocating patriarchal thought towards is a western thought process.
Our Ancestral mothers were the epitome of Black feminism/womanism. We've had a long history of it. Black feminist struggle is not the anti thesis of Afrikan liberation.
The most revolutionary of sisters in the past have been active Black feminists. Sister Angela, Assata, Sojourner Truth, Francis Beale, Toni Cade Bambara, bell hooks, Pearl Cleage, and Ntzoke Shange have stated that the oppression of Black women must take the form of revolutionary Black feminism. In order to do that, Black men and women must not be threatened by women reclaiming that power, for it undermines our struggle as a whole. For be empowered as a womanist is purely Afrikan in that it is taking our community back to one of equality based on humanity, and the absence of patriarchy and oppression based on gender. Why would this not be considered Afrikan, when to be an Afrikan woman is to build on these principles in order to attain political freedom? To take the position as anything less is to be politically counterrevolutionary.
I will challenge those posters politically to their commitment as revolutionaries by their stance towards feminism and their understanding of it.
This is the power that Sister Assata was fighting for. For she was not only fighting for eradication of racism, she was fighting for the eradication of patriarchal thought as a Black woman.

You sound like a muslim trying to explain to me how the blackmans natural religion is Islam. And that the first muslim was adam because he prayed to one god. What Africa society had feminist? If they had feminist, how where they defined? What language did they speak? What people (not in any history books nor recorded anywhere) in Africa considered themselves feminist?

Even you in your so called defense of African women u are applying the white man's tactics of defining and labeling people according to his own eyes. according your YOUR WESTERN UNDERSTANDING of them. You cannot go among the Masai and find a feminist nor a supporter of it.

So how can you say they where feminist when they themselves didn't, in Mama Assata case don't, claim to be?

[Kefentse_Bandele]

"

A revolutionary woman can't have no reactionary man. If
he's not about struggle, if he ain't about building a strong black
nation then he ain't about nothing. We must celebrate African
womanhood"

not feminism

peace!

[Tenkamenin]

You sound like a muslim trying to explain to me how the blackmans natural religion is Islam. And that the first muslim was adam because he prayed to one god. What Africa society had feminist? If they had feminist, how where they defined? What language did they speak? What people (not in any history books nor recorded anywhere) in Africa considered themselves feminist?

Even you in your so called defense of African women u are applying the white man's tactics of defining and labeling people according to his own eyes. according your YOUR WESTERN UNDERSTANDING of them. You cannot go among the Masai and find a feminist nor a supporter of it.

So how can you say they where feminist when they themselves didn't, in Mama Assata case don't, claim to be?

This thread has become a great source to me since I'm taking a sociological class on public policy and my professor is a white female feminist, and its pretty clear in our syllabus we will talk about feminism so I love to hear the African perspective on it. You guys haven't dissapointed me on this subject

In my opinion Feminism and Womanism were born out of the Euro experience in America. I don't think I would be happy if I was a woman and my man would portray me as a soft, and sensitive woman who could fall prey to loving a 100 ft beast (King Kong). The Eurocentric patriarchal system has no balance whats so ever, and understanding the fundamental of science every action produces a reaction and every extreme action produces an extreme reaction thus we have Feminism. Africana Womanism like some of my sisters are championing is based on the experience of Black Women in America. As our sister W.I.S.E. says,

"For be empowered as a womanist is purely Afrikan in that it is taking our community back to one of equality based on humanity, and the absence of patriarchy and oppression based on gender"

If Womanism wants to return our people back to our roots where equality is based on humanity, than why call it "Womanism" or "African Womanism? To me we're better off describing that philosophy as Sankofa.

In pre colonial Asante the role of men and women was a very interesting dynamic. Women and Men were always equal in society, matter of fact what made Asante women very special was the fact that they were able to do everything that a man could do, a woman could farm just as good as men. Do you think Nana Yaa Asantewaa was a rule to the exception? If so you're dead wrong, where man couldn't step up women would jump in and say if you're such a wimp I will exchange your underwear with mine and I will fight instead.

Sankofa