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    1. #1
      liveinV's Avatar
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      "Us Betraying Us"


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      Nanga def Family? i want to get your thoughts on the issue of "Us betraying Us". Meaning, Afrikan people doing or saying something that harms other Afrikan people. i'm talking informers, "sell outs" or any other form of betrayal. i want to know if the Village thinks that punishment is due to our own when they hurt us, or should a "break" be given. Firstly, i believe in "taking care of" anybody who causes harm to Afrikan people. It's unfortunate because i love our people so much and believe in protecting our people, but when we are the ones doing the damage, especially when we know better, punishment still has to be dealt.

    2. #2
      manifestdestiny's Avatar
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      I disagree (4 reasons why)


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      1. Who determines what offenses should be considered worth "taking Care of"? (Think about McCarthyism and how this could be used as a weapon against us)
      2. How can you teach the value of Afrikan life if you individually or organizationally don't value it? (Enough Afrikan blood has been shed)
      3. The Afrikan community will never agree in totality and there will always be those that lack the same principles, perceptions, and practices as the general body. Malcolm X went through several changes throughout his life before he became El-Hajj Malik El-Shabazz. Therefore, you may be killing a rose before it has had time to grow. (Never fight against your own)
      4. Cointelpro uses conflict to destabilize organizations, pitting groups against groups, causes against causes. Heavily policing our own can cause animosity and alienation. (Allow the niggas to kill themselves off)

      In short, a house divided against it self cannot stand. I understand that even the Che executed transgressors and cowards but it was detrimental because he was in a heated conflict.(open physical warfare) We are not in a heated conflict. I personally, believe that there is no need to kill or harm an Afrikan even if they are agents/cowards/the compromised they tend to fall on their own sword. All we should be concern with is building up and defending.

    3. #3
      liveinV's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by manifestdestiny View Post
      1. Who determines what offenses should be considered worth "taking Care of"? (Think about McCarthyism and how this could be used as a weapon against us)
      2. How can you teach the value of Afrikan life if you individually or organizationally don't value it? (Enough Afrikan blood has been shed)
      3. The Afrikan community will never agree in totality and there will always be those that lack the same principles, perceptions, and practices as the general body. Malcolm X went through several changes throughout his life before he became El-Hajj Malik El-Shabazz. Therefore, you may be killing a rose before it has had time to grow. (Never fight against your own)
      4. Cointelpro uses conflict to destabilize organizations, pitting groups against groups, causes against causes. Heavily policing our own can cause animosity and alienation. (Allow the niggas to kill themselves off)

      In short, a house divided against it self cannot stand. I understand that even the Che executed transgressors and cowards but it was detrimental because he was in a heated conflict.(open physical warfare) We are not in a heated conflict. I personally, believe that there is no need to kill or harm an Afrikan even if they are agents/cowards/the compromised they tend to fall on their own sword. All we should be concern with is building up and defending.
      Shem Hotep My Brother. You should know that i'm thinking The "Afrikan" Nation and how i believe it should operate. This is my opinion and i shared it with the Village. I wanted to know the thoughts of our people. So, ngiyabonga for yours. Now. in reference to your #1: It has nothing to do with '"others". I believe we should be the ones who determine what "offenses should be considered worth 'taking care of' ". In reference to your #2: Absolutely not!! It is not about devaluing Afrikan life. It is about Protecting Afrikan life. Two examples: 1. If a member of the Family knowingly gives information to the enemy during a time of war or any other time, that Family member has to go. That move of dealing with the enemy by that one, could cause the loss of many other Afrikan lives. 2. If a member of the Village rapes and kills one of our babies, that Family member has to go. It must be well known that such action will not be tolerated. Hopefully, that will prevent further raping and killing, thus, Protecting Afrikan Life. In reference to #'s 3 and 4: You are right and while i think most of us would agree, i maintain, that in effort, to Protect Afrikan people, all violators must be held accountable. In reference to your closing statement: "we are not in heated conflict" Really, Brother? Truly look at what our people are confronted with, on a daily basis. Globally, we are murdered, raped and otherwise destroyed on the regular. i'm in new york, where i often see young Afrikan bodies beating themselves up against "billy clubs". i see Young Afrikan Bodies running themselves into the bullets of police guns. i see them flying into police tasers. i see the Mamas, Babas and other family of the "victims" harassed by the very same police who hurt or took the lives of our Brothers. We're not in heated conflict? My Brother, We are at WAR.

    4. #4
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      Quote Originally Posted by liveinV View Post
      Shem Hotep My Brother. You should know that i'm thinking The "Afrikan" Nation and how i believe it should operate. This is my opinion and i shared it with the Village. I wanted to know the thoughts of our people. So, ngiyabonga for yours. Now. in reference to your #1: It has nothing to do with '"others". I believe we should be the ones who determine what "offenses should be considered worth 'taking care of' ". In reference to your #2: Absolutely not!! It is not about devaluing Afrikan life. It is about Protecting Afrikan life. Two examples: 1. If a member of the Family knowingly gives information to the enemy during a time of war or any other time, that Family member has to go. That move of dealing with the enemy by that one, could cause the loss of many other Afrikan lives. 2. If a member of the Village rapes and kills one of our babies, that Family member has to go. It must be well known that such action will not be tolerated. Hopefully, that will prevent further raping and killing, thus, Protecting Afrikan Life. In reference to #'s 3 and 4: You are right and while i think most of us would agree, i maintain, that in effort, to Protect Afrikan people, all violators must be held accountable. In reference to your closing statement: "we are not in heated conflict" Really, Brother? Truly look at what our people are confronted with, on a daily basis. Globally, we are murdered, raped and otherwise destroyed on the regular. i'm in new york, where i often see young Afrikan bodies beating themselves up against "billy clubs". i see Young Afrikan Bodies running themselves into the bullets of police guns. i see them flying into police tasers. i see the Mamas, Babas and other family of the "victims" harassed by the very same police who hurt or took the lives of our Brothers. We're not in heated conflict? My Brother, We are at WAR.
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    5. #5
      manifestdestiny's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by liveinV View Post
      Shem Hotep My Brother. You should know that i'm thinking The "Afrikan" Nation and how i believe it should operate. This is my opinion and i shared it with the Village. I wanted to know the thoughts of our people. So, ngiyabonga for yours. Now. in reference to your #1: It has nothing to do with '"others". I believe we should be the ones who determine what "offenses should be considered worth 'taking care of' ". In reference to your #2: Absolutely not!! It is not about devaluing Afrikan life. It is about Protecting Afrikan life. Two examples: 1. If a member of the Family knowingly gives information to the enemy during a time of war or any other time, that Family member has to go. That move of dealing with the enemy by that one, could cause the loss of many other Afrikan lives. 2. If a member of the Village rapes and kills one of our babies, that Family member has to go. It must be well known that such action will not be tolerated. Hopefully, that will prevent further raping and killing, thus, Protecting Afrikan Life. In reference to #'s 3 and 4: You are right and while i think most of us would agree, i maintain, that in effort, to Protect Afrikan people, all violators must be held accountable. In reference to your closing statement: "we are not in heated conflict" Really, Brother? Truly look at what our people are confronted with, on a daily basis. Globally, we are murdered, raped and otherwise destroyed on the regular. i'm in new york, where i often see young Afrikan bodies beating themselves up against "billy clubs". i see Young Afrikan Bodies running themselves into the bullets of police guns. i see them flying into police tasers. i see the Mamas, Babas and other family of the "victims" harassed by the very same police who hurt or took the lives of our Brothers. We're not in heated conflict? My Brother, We are at WAR.
      I over-stand your point and I say that it is communally self-defeating (As the tribal conflicts in Afrika has shown us.) You have to value afrikan life more than your enemy or your cause becomes irrelevant.

      This is why I asked who determines what is worth killing for and whose life is not worth living. Child molesters and rapist are extreme cases and to be honest pose no threat to the functioning of a revolution. (Although, I personally feel that death is too easy for a rapist / child molester, their genitalia or hands should be surgically removed.) I know that a lot of brothers feel this way about deviants but when you kill your own you are devaluing life. Which makes it easier to kill another and another until eventually you are no better than the very same system you are fighting against.

      Of course we are in a war (you need to read up on my posts) but we are not in a heated war. (Moreso with ourselves) I don't know how you see it as so, I guess it takes those that have been in heated conflict know it. There is no protesting, no free so and so rallies, no petition drives, no rights to be respected in open war fare. I watched a video yesterday that shown 17 Iraqi news personal gunned down by an Apache Helicopter in cold blood. That's heated conflict, that's open war fare. True, assaults on our people are acts of war but we are not communally engaged in heated war fare. This shit that we are dealing with is nothing, compared to what our ancestors had to deal with, our brothers in Afrika are dealing with, and the Iraqi's are dealing with. In their case, yes, you have to take definitive means into action. In our case, we have to over-stand that it is far more beneficial to focus efforts on preventing infiltrators from having access to vital information or sabotaging community outreach programs then running around trying to be judge, jury, and executioner. All I am saying is I am not killing my people, would rather die first. I'm not that type of soldier.

    6. #6
      liveinV's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by manifestdestiny View Post
      I over-stand your point and I say that it is communally self-defeating (As the tribal conflicts in Afrika has shown us.) You have to value afrikan life more than your enemy or your cause becomes irrelevant.

      This is why I asked who determines what is worth killing for and whose life is not worth living. Child molesters and rapist are extreme cases and to be honest pose no threat to the functioning of a revolution. (Although, I personally feel that death is too easy for a rapist / child molester, their genitalia or hands should be surgically removed.) I know that a lot of brothers feel this way about deviants but when you kill your own you are devaluing life. Which makes it easier to kill another and another until eventually you are no better than the very same system you are fighting against.

      Of course we are in a war (you need to read up on my posts) but we are not in a heated war. (Moreso with ourselves) I don't know how you see it as so, I guess it takes those that have been in heated conflict know it. There is no protesting, no free so and so rallies, no petition drives, no rights to be respected in open war fare. I watched a video yesterday that shown 17 Iraqi news personal gunned down by an Apache Helicopter in cold blood. That's heated conflict, that's open war fare. True, assaults on our people are acts of war but we are not communally engaged in heated war fare. This shit that we are dealing with is nothing, compared to what our ancestors had to deal with, our brothers in Afrika are dealing with, and the Iraqi's are dealing with. In their case, yes, you have to take definitive means into action. In our case, we have to over-stand that it is far more beneficial to focus efforts on preventing infiltrators from having access to vital information or sabotaging community outreach programs then running around trying to be judge, jury, and executioner. All I am saying is I am not killing my people, would rather die first. I'm not that type of soldier.
      Hetepu My Brother.

      Here it is: i love my people. i maintain my position. i Do Not see it as de-valuing Afrikan Life.

      Here is where we agree. Partially. There are some cases of "transgression" where there are other options besides "killing". With that, there are also cases where killing is the option. That is why i chose to use the words, "take care of" and not "killing". The point is to ensure the "problem" does not happen again.

      In reference your point, "preventing infiltrators from having access to vital information or sabotaging community outreach programs then running around trying to be judge, jury, and executioner." 1. Of course we should prevent such problems. 2. There are times when there is a need for a "judge, jury, and executioner". And it should be all Afrikan.

      In reference to your point, "but we are not in a heated war": WAR is WAR. Categorize it any way you choose. Tell the mother and father of little Aiyana Jones (shot down dead) , or the mother of Anthony Hill( shot and dragged to death) that the loss of their children's lives are not as bad as the "17 Iraqi news personal gunned down by an Apache Helicopter in cold blood". The families of "victim's" who have been murdered would probably call their murders "cold blooded"

      The Following is in reference to the 3rd part of your post: Do Not mistake my thoughts and feelings about the Carnage of our Family in Iraq. The Carnage of our Family on our continent. The Carnage of our Family all over the world. We are murdered all over the world. i have worked tirelessly for our mothers and sisters raped, our fathers and sons decapitated, castrated and killed in Sudan. i know about our 200 Family members, probably more, trapped in a stadium then shot dead in Guinea. i feel no differently about what happens to our Family outside of this corporation ("country"). i am expressing that the amount of lives taken or the manner in which they are taken does not determine whether or not the action is War.



      Now, about our Ancestors who perished in our Maafa, believe me, they are in my heart and soul. i'm currently producing a multi-media production that will give our people a chance to physically, as much as possible, mentally and spiritually feel what our Ancestor's went through. Our Maafa was horrifying, and is critical to us today. Many of us are ignorant to what it truly was and what it means for us now. (information will be posted when the production dates are decided).

      Concluding here. Again ngiyabonga for what you have shared. You are my Brother. Your beliefs are valid. However, as i have already expressed the basics of my thoughts concerning the above issues, and it appears that we are both set in our views, i will leave this discussion as it is. i think it is important that we dialogue as a Family. (a live Village discussion, where i look into your eyes and you look into mine would be great). However, i will go only but so far with this form of communication. There is much more to post concerning our people, and there are enough of us that the issues discussed in this post can be continued by other Family members. I can not be distracted by unnecessary repetition. Not with this War going on. Shem Hotep.

    7. #7
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      greetings- brother and sister in the struggle

      i will not take sides but i must say that i have enjoyed the back and fourth-

      and somebody's argument sounds a lot like the one i was making the other day...

      only now, the tables have turned- and i was accused of being condescending... if i have

      offended you it was not my intention- one thousand apologies...

    8. #8
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      The goal is freedom.. simple. Love yourself first before anyone else.

      Now when our own steps in the way, and obstructs the way.. what force must be used to clear that path? Some of our own get confused and think "LOVE EVERYBODY" is the goal and function on that level... fuck that!!

      I love freedom and love those who love their freedom as much as I do.. those willing to do what it takes to achieve it.

      I always go back and remember the plantation days and MISS HARRIET TUBMAN, it helps put it in perspective for me. If you are planning on running and you feel one of your own will snitch you before your attempt.. in your planning, if you overlooked the snitch, your plan isn't complete. Another case is you got those whom you'll trust who'll rat you.

      You see, both ways you must educate yourself to what will happen if you ever got caught by your enemy and what they will inflict. In knowing this, this is the level of gratitude you would serve back on the informer given the chance.

      Freedom is life, somebody~anybody who wishes to take FULLY~ALL of that from you, must get served death

      If it be a physical or mental war.. We are at war, make no mistake about that. If one of my own people fails to acknowledge his/her very own surroundings and environment.. and refuses to pick up on info/book or a weapon and chooses to side with the enemy ..poses an obstruction to you, if your goal is freedom.

      I don't allow informers~snitches~rats~sellouts in the circle, cuz killing somebody and jail ain't in the plan... that's in the works of our enemy.



      ---------- Post added at 03:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:49 PM ----------

      Quote Originally Posted by manifestdestiny View Post
      Child molesters and rapist are extreme cases and to be honest pose no threat to the functioning of a revolution.
      You dead wrong


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    9. #9
      manifestdestiny's Avatar
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      Explain, G1deon how a rapist/Child molester stops the flow of information, community organization, economic development, and work-shops? Secondly, you have understand my reasoning. I am from the gutter, I have seen enough death. This is not a case of loving everyone, it is a case about valuing Afrikan life. I just find it odd that we can talk about killing our own openly but when it comes to killing some crakkas or the government it's a different story. You will never be able to prevent agents from being installed or snitches from snitching, no more than we can keep agents/krakkas off of this site. You can't kill them all but once you have a negative reputation with the people you can't change that. As far as the Harriet Tubeman statement, her situation was different which means she had to respond as such. The very existence of the underground railroad was dependent on it's secrecy, many more lives where at risk. This is not our situation, nor are we talking about the mass murdering of Afrikans at the hand of a snitch or an agent. I still don't understand why my point is hard to understand. You can't say that you are for Afrikan people and kill them trivially, what you are really for is your agenda and anyone that disagrees is dealt with. That's sounds like the very same shit we are fighting. Don't get too caught up in the war and loose sight of the cause. I am not just for freedom, freedom means something different to every person. I am for my people and their prosperity collectively.

    10. #10
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      greetings-

      i see the need to purge our ranks of traitors, child molesters etc..., yet i feel very strongly that we must maintain our integrity. maybe killing is not an occupation suited for everyone. it is possible that plotting, planning and strategic thought is not well suited for everyone either. like water, we have to find our own level...


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    11. #11
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      I'll tell you how a child molester/rapist does pose a threat to the revolution.

      First, knowing revolution is a process, our children will one day become the leaders of this movement. You project your statement, thinking of only today without regard to those who will take it over and how they may have been harmed. Their safety is the very existence of this revolution.

      Children is really what this war~revolution is really all about. Is it not the reason, you do what you do, and what you are fighting for??

      I'm sticking to the topic, of, "Us Betraying Us" ..forget about everybody else right now!!

      Knowing what you know about the gov't installing agents; than Harriet Tubman's situation is not so different than any of our own in regards to keeping a level of secrecy to vital information in running our operations ..we should all each have our own "underground railroad" to travel on towards our freedom. You may know what I be about, what I'm down for, but what I do is another thing.. Secrecy is always needed.

      This movement has forgone the process of strategically evolving into a structure of many cells out of survival (free from outsiders) than for just one to represent the majority to just stand up, in the open, just to get a bulls-eye put on their forehead.. we may not all operate under the same guidelines, but we all know who and what our shared-enemy is capable of and that we all share in the same goal.. and that is to be free.. to me, that is by any means.

      So Harriet Tubman's approach is still prevalent and needed today.. don't get confused with time.

      Only under freedom will anyone fully prosper.

      The question I will ask you.. would you kill one to save the other two?


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    12. #12
      manifestdestiny's Avatar
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      We will have to talk privately....

      In response to Child Molestation and rape, I am not depreciating the damage it causes to the individual, family, and local community. However, to suggest that the movement is halted by the offense is an exaggeration. If anything, these terrible occurrences are situations where the revolutionary community can show their support and strengthen ties with the local community. My general point is you can't use rare occasions to justify the mean as a general method in this particular argument. However, yall are free to believe whatever, lets us hope for the best.

    13. #13
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      Bismillaah ir Rahmaan ir Rahiim In The Name of Allah, The Only GOD, The Most Merciful, The All Merciful.
      As salaamu 'alaikum, The peace be upon you, everyone.



      I'm surprised that I didn't pickup this incident in 2009. It's difficult to discern what has happened here, but it does concern politics. These people are asking for our attention, and we are barely in these times doing enough for our selves; but that may be the major clue to being one whole people. Their plea must nonetheless be heard, and translated into action. This is not regarding Guinea, alone but all of Africa. I watched a video concerning Africa's colonialization by European's and will include it here. However, you may not like what you see and what it has to say even though you are familiar with what took place there; and what is still occurring:


      [nomedia]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgzSnZidGuU&feature=player_embedded[/nomedia] Africa: States of independence - the scramble for Africa




      Inside the “BLOODY MONDAY” Report: One Horror After Another GUINEA OYE! Inside the “BLOODY MONDAY” Report: One Horror After Another
      DECEMBER 19, 2009

      YouTube - Broadcast Yourself. 28sept

      [nomedia]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQ3J2_eQCyc&NR=1[/nomedia] Hommage aux victimes de la repression du 28 septembre 2009 - Guinee Conakry

      [nomedia]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGBdnl5WV0Q&NR=1&feature=fvwp[/nomedia] massaker guinea conakry 2009 am 28,09,09

      YouTube - Broadcast Yourself. Massacre du 28 septembre, Conakry Part 2

      [nomedia]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHwz7CRKjWQ&NR=1[/nomedia] Massacre du 28 septembre, Conakry Part 3

      [nomedia]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQ-wk-Z14mk&NR=1[/nomedia] september 28th genocide in guinea

      [nomedia]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyJ5RNCSM3w&NR=1&feature=fvwp[/nomedia] Special report on Guinea's junta leader, Moussa Dadis Camara

      [nomedia]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4Jcydno1ZY&feature=related[/nomedia] Guinea following deadly crackdown

      [nomedia]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1f3s06XWSCg&NR=1[/nomedia] Roundup: Political events in Africa

      [nomedia]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vn8RNlZEOKQ&NR=1[/nomedia] Blood on the streets in Guinea





      Wassalaam. ShakaZulu
      Last edited by ShakaZulu; 10-13-2010 at 05:00 PM. Reason: Guinea
      The Remembrance of Allah, The Most Compassionate, The Most Merciful, is Life's Greatest Blessing.

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    14. #14
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      Lets use filmmaker Tigre Hill as example.



      Filmmaker Tigre Hill outside the Merriam Theater, on the sidewalk filled with hundreds of police officers, their motorcycles lined up along Broad Street where his movie "The Barrel of a Gun" was screened




      The film, "The Barrel of a Gun" centers on the perception of Mumia Abu Jamal being guilty in the murder of a cop.

      Tigre Hill's film, sole purpose was to make Mumia guilty and produce a spin of negative effect on the minds of the general public before his Nov 9th, 2010 (TODAY) court hearing. The tactic employed here was to taint and make-prepare the general public in siding in agreement with the outcome of the judge's (future)decision to find Mumia guilty and to stay the order of his execution.




      After the screening of this movie, there was an after-party where the
      guests included celebrities, friends and officers. Including former Police Commissioner Sylvester Johnson, District Attorney Lynne Abraham, attorney Jimmy Binns, Philadelphia Police Chief Inspector Bill Colarulo along side Tigre Hill



      In this case with Tigre Hill, what punishment would you serve on him for betrayal?


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    15. #15
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      0 Not allowed! Not allowed!
      Waterboard his sorry ass.
      You are here because you know something,what you
      know you can't explain,but you feel it.You've felt it
      your entire life; that theres something wrong with the
      world.You don't know what it is but it's there; a
      splinter in your mind... the matrix




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      Assata Shakur Speaks Is An Oasis Of Pan African Information Geared Towards The Liberation Of Afrikan People.

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