What do you think of propaganda?

[rebelAfrika]

You can post up on the question if you want, but I REALLY was just interested in the poll

[IfasehunReincarnated]

unless u are a aaprp kinda guy, you may not be familiar with your terminology. propoganda is any form of communication used for political ends. in reality its all bad because we shouldn't use messages to garner support or dissent, we should serve as examples through our actions. actions are indeed louder than words. its much better to start a breakfast program in the hood where you can only afford to feed 2 kids, THEN tell people how important it is to feed our people and ask them to join in, than to run rhetoric or propoganda about how the white man starves our communities.

in other cases propoganda can be used to generate mass attention to a problem - to convey how serious or dire something is. it may be used to organize a mass over days, rather than months - like the november 2nd elections or be perfected to raise membership over time - like in a local reparations chapter.


then again, propoganda is often accompanied a lie or a "slant" on the truth used to propel people closer to your own thinking, so its always suspect - even when its delivered by us. propoganda usually evokes or encourages stereotyping or generalizations and in 85% of the populace generates an attititude of "tell me what to do leader" rather than "i have this to contribute to the movement".

ok. i am undecided. i cant really say either way. lol

[rebelAfrika]

I hear you Ifa. I say that propaganda in general is interpreted as negative. Thats how I originally interpreted it. When I first joined the All-African People's Revolutionary Party, I had a MAJOR problem with them refering to the leaflets and brochures we were distributing as "propaganda." I always held the impression that propaganda is a bad thing. It took me awhile to get used to it in a good sense. I asked some of the elder comrades in the party about propaganda. I said "isn't propaganda a bad thing?" and one of my comrades said "our enemy puts out negative propaganda against us into the public 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year. I don't see nothing wrong with putting out propaganda that is positive as it relates to us." Another comrade chimed in with "propaganda is not inherently good or bad...it is only used to emphasize particular points. If people choose to use it to emphasize good points, then it is good. If people use it to emphasize bad points than it is bad." This idea struck me as a unique poll question, therefore I wanted to ask it. For those who have participated in the poll, thank you for your input.

[nattyreb]

I think it's a great poll question. Propaganda is extremely critical in any type of organizing and ideally all organizations should have an arm totally devoted to developing the most "everyday people-friendly" propaganda and tailoring the messages therein to combat the media/mainstream propaganda we're daily subjected to. Most organizations, unfortunately, aren't large enough to do this and we all have to take on practically every task collectively, but the art of propaganda should be studied and undertaken as the tremendously significant and necessary tool that it is.

[nattyreb]

I'm gonna add on to my own self, cuz I just noticed that one of the poll points implies that propaganda is not reality. This lying government's propaganda campaigns do very much distort reality, but it is incorrect to portray all propaganda as lies. Revolutionary propaganda is a way to focus on issues and introduce true political thought in a plain spoken way that is palatable to the masses of our people. We have to teach our people to think outside the box! For example, we oppose the repressive, murderous agents of this government which many of our people do not recognize as such, i.e. spy agencies, military, police, prisons, etc. The government propaganda *promotes* these repressive agents, *but will outright lie to cover up the atrocities they've committed*. Revolutionary propagandists have no reason to lie about what the agents of this government are doing to our people because it is crystallized every single day. Our job as propagandists, again, is to make it people-friendly and to put it in a revolutionary political context.

Propaganda is not just about verbiage or towing a particular party line, it is about the use of headlining, photos, cartooning, color, texture, etc., all those things that would make the average person not only pick it up *but hold their attention*. Articles must inform as well as incite people to vigorously question authority and completely understand our position as citizens of the world vs. citizens of north amerikkka. It has to get inside people's heads as thoroughly as mainstream media without the luxury of 200 tv channels and daily newspapers. It has to be creative, thoughtful, and incredibly clever.

Propaganda is not just about print mediums, either, propaganda is in the music that elevates political consciousness; in the speeches that cause folk to stand, shout and bear witness; in the films that bring people to tears and leave them illuminated in ways never before thought possible; even in signs and graffiti! Think about how powerful a message it was to the community in the face of the tremendous government campaign to demonize Sis. Assata while underground to see four simple words in many brave folks' windows stating "Assata is Welcome Here." Imagine how that must have rocked people's worlds, and still would, even today!

Propaganda must be based in reality in order to resonate with the people and should not ever include lies and distortion as a way to elevate our messages of freedom. Propaganda is what is responsible for bringing many, many people to revolutionary awareness and is the very foundation of everyday political education.

[Im The Truth]

I may add more later by to reply in a sense to rebelafrica, look at some of El-Hajj Malik El-Shabbazz (Malcolm X)'s speeches in Harlem when he is on the street stage, behind him is a big sign that says "Proper Propaganda"

[OsunkoyaIfayomi]

Ever heard the term properganda or just ganda

[Sun Ship]

This compelling quote has always been relevant to my understanding of propaganda…


"Propaganda is to a democracy what violence is to a dictatorship" - Noam Chomsky


I know some think we can sort of flip-the-script with the use of “proper� propaganda. But, I am not always comfortable with trying to regurgitate and rearticulate the words of the oppressor, although historically some of our greatest orators and writers may have done so, very successfully. As sister Marimba Ani has taught us to redefine and investigate European imperialism and white supremacy, using terms that reflect our own African philosophical and metaphysical understandings of life and nature, so should we also use our own preferred terms, to define our dialectic response to this Western imperialist construct, known as propaganda; usually perceived as the dissemination of misinformation. Propaganda has been ingrained in the psyche and socially defined as implying lies, deception and false suppositions.

As Brother Malcolm would say, “just tell the TRUTH and make it plain�


Peace,

Brother Sun :cool:

[rebelAfrika]

Originally Posted by Sun Ship

I more so prefer facts and truth...over the use of propaganda

Sooooo...if it is propaganda, then it is not a "fact"...or the "truth?"

Nice Chomsky quote by the way. I remember him saying that in "Manufacturing Consent" (the DVD, not the book). I agree with it a million percent. Any democracy has to propagate IN FAVOR of itself in order to maintain it's status while dictatorships don't worry with propaganda...they use violence to maintain their rule.

[Sun Ship]

I have always said that in order to tell a good lie, usually the lie is at the end of several truths or facts. Propaganda can be full of certain truths or facts, which usually makes the lie or the eventual skewing of the truth more digestible. Now, I can’t disagree with your analogy of how democracies use propaganda, in general. But I believe Chomsky was defining propaganda’s insidious nature and implied treachery as being just as damaging and destructive as the violence invoked by Dictatorships.

I hope I'm not splitting hairs or playing semantics with my response.

Peace

[Elisa Keisha]

Ifasehun is right... but I responded option 1 based on what I thought Rebelafrika was talkin about.

I think of propaganda (that "commercial" part of it) as interestin because of its creativivity (when its well done) and also because I took some curses about it and I always try to find out their tactics and all that. But even me knowin about them I occassionaly feel atracted for things that I know are not all that or simply I dont really need. And be sure when they use subliminal stuff thats strong!

Anyways I believe it should be somehow regulated... coz u see stuff on tv that u know its just not right! they lie as much as they want and ppl is almost being rob! and I think somebody should take better care of that.

yeah...obiuosly they wont

[rebelAfrika]

Originally Posted by Sun Ship

I hope I'm not splitting hairs or playing semantics with my response.

Nah man. Part of the reason we are here is for the discussion.

Originally Posted by Sun Ship

I have always said that in order to tell a good lie, usually the lie is at the end of several truths or facts. Propaganda can be full of certain truths or facts, which usually makes the lie or the eventual skewing of the truth more digestible.

So if I understand you correctly, you are saying that propaganda can be full of "certain" truths or facts...and that it is "BECAUSE OF THIS", that the "lie" (which is at the root of propaganda) and/or the "eventual skewing of truth" is made more acceptible? Or in "my" own words...you are saying that propaganda is part truth/part lie? (I'll leave it up to you to measure how much of it is truth and lie).

If this is what you are saying...then I disagree. I DO think that propaganda can be the truth "skewed"...or that it can be 100% LIES even!!! But I also think that propaganda can be the "purest" truth you could ever have the good fortune of running into. But this all goes back to the original point that I got from my comrades..."propaganda is not inherently good or bad...it is only used to emphasize particular points." That is my observance regarding propaganda. It is nothing more than a tool. Nothing more than a "highlighter" marker at best. Different people highlight different things. Just because some idiot is highlighting all the wrong things doesn't make highlighting "in itself" bad.

Originally Posted by Sun Ship

Now, I can’t disagree with your analogy of how democracies use propaganda, in general. But I believe Chomsky was defining propaganda’s insidious nature and implied treachery as being just as damaging and destructive as the violence invoked by Dictatorships.

Yeah...I think that if propaganda is used in an "insidious" way that it can be very damaging and destructive...however I do not believe that propaganda is used "exclusively" in insidious ways.

I'm glad you replyed to this thread bruh. It took me a long time to compose my response this time around. I think it is because (in all honesty), when I say propaganda, it "still" leaves a bad taste in my mouth...but I am slowly getting over it.

[rebelAfrika]

Originally Posted by Elisa_Keisha

Ifasehun is right... but I responded option 1 based on what I thought Rebelafrika was talkin about.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhh Elisa!!! You shoulda went the way Ifasehun went!!! I DO believe that propaganda is "hype"...but sometimes what it is "hyping up" is not "bad", therefore I would not say that you should "never" pay any attention to it. So now it should be clear that "PERSONALLY" I don't think that NOBODY should pick the first choice on this poll...but even more important to me than that is...I want people to have the freedom to pick WHATEVER THE HELL THEY WANT TO PICK (and if "rebelafrika" don't like it, he can go to hell on a church bus)!!!

[Sun Ship]

Once again Brother rebelafrika, I think I really do understand your proposition, that propaganda is just a tool and it can instruct or communicate ideas more intensely, and could possibly expedite the reversal of a peoples perception (be it good or bad). But I think this is where I’m concerned. For what a person perceives is everything. And when most people hear that they are being induced by propaganda, they quickly associate it with brain washing and/or Orwellian-type antics.

Just look at the political associations to the word communism. Today, many African socialist have distant themselves from this term and its modern theoretical doctrines. Matter of fact, as many New African disciples are trying to research and reinvigorate the philosophical and applicable constructs of African communal living, some have even distant themselves from the social-scientific term and political definition of socialism. Now embracing the concept of African Communalism.

All of these terms are harmless and at their theoretical root and have basically the same semantical connotations, but because a draconian approach to theoretical communism especially, was historically embraced by so many tyrannical rulers and was originally flawed by the doctrinal deracination of spirituality, it is now, not very useful as a social or political idea for New Africans, along with the perception of the word.

Remember, in a true and non-romantic view of ancient Africa, many great kingdoms were sometimes in part, theocratic, imperialistic and monarchies, but in today’s understanding of these systems and terms, most find these types of governments unacceptable. I have heard many African thinkers talk about reconstituting African-centered cultural living, but rarely have I heard them discussing reviving the institutionalization of chiefdoms and kingships.




Peace,

Brother Sun:cool:

[rebelAfrika]

Brutha Sun!!!

I'm getting ready to be on a panel discussion @UCLA at the moment, so I will get back to some of your other points later on (most likely late tonight). But before I hop in the shower and all, lemme point this out real quick...

Originally Posted by Sun Ship

I have heard many African thinkers talk about reconstituting African-centered cultural living, but rarely have I heard them discussing reviving the institutionalization of chiefdoms and kingships.

It's in the under-current brutha. It's in the under-current. How many people do you know that use terms like "King" or "Queen" or "Duke" (Ras) or "Lord" or even "Goddess" and "God" to refer to each other? (my preference is "Brother", "Sister" and "Comrade"). How many people do you know that want to go back "indiscriminantly" into Afrocentric cultural life? And lets not forget that chiefdoms (AND kingdoms?) STILL exist in African society. How "relevent" they are "at THIS time" is debatable, but I say that they remain a part of the discussion in the under-current of things.

That's it for now...I'll get back.