Respectfully, I will say that I have seen both polygamy and polyandry practiced, the thing we are looking at is the term "polygamous by nature". I have not found any supporting evidence for this other than the concepts propagated by Aryan cultures and supported by male dominant Afrikan cultures which do not seem to be found in the most remote or most ancient Afrikan cultures. The most recent concepts of this dominance of males seems to be after the encroachment by outside forces into Afrika. According the the works of folks like Dr. Ishakamusa Barashango, Dr. Cheik Anta Diop, Dr. Josef Ben-Jochannen. There is much evidence for the existence of Matriarchal cultures existing Pre-Aryan invasions of Afrika and her colonies in India, Southeast Asia etc. In these cultures you will find woman centered civilization wherein women had numerous husbands in many cases the men were more or less concubines. So the concept of men being "polygamous by nature" is sketchy at best.
Understand that any efforts to bring our folks away from the eurocentic insanity is neccesity, I would rather they be with Kwesi or Dr. Hagins then the way they are. Everything however in our studies of our cultures can be debated and none are beyond reproach, including myself, I submit to that. That's why there is to me only truth and not "The Truth"!
Talk to you later
I am just trying to get clarity about what I read.
In the letter and I've heard Dr. Hagins state in an interview that at least once someone tried to serve as an intermediary to get the two of them together (actually Kwesi and Phil Valentine) and they both refused while Dr. Hagins said he was willing for a sit-down. Of course that's his side.Quote:
second that. Man up dont be sending no damn letters sit down and talk man to man.
I'm not a 'follower' of either of these two men really, but I have heard Dr. Hagins speak more. I first heard of him on the Michael Baisden show during one of the Pimp in the Pulpit segments I believe. I then started listening to his online broadcast.
I heard an interview with Dr. Hagins and another brother whose name I don't remember who used to be minster/pastor but now is teaching on ancient Kemetic legacy, spirituality, etc. In their dialog they were expressing to each other that -- I'm paraphrasing now. We were raised Christian. we're not anymore. Now that we know the truth and are walking a new path and are conscious and sharing what we now know, we are still not accepted. People who are conscious already look at the unconscious and want them to wake up and change, but when they do we still hold it against them.Quote:
I did the same for Pastor Hagins and found that I could listen on wblr.com 24/7 so I did.
I just wanted to put that on the board as something to think about because I sure thought about it myself when I heard that there was beef betwenn Hagins, Kwesi and Valentine.
I don't have a problem with Dr. Hagins though. not as far as his background. Who else would be better than an ex-christian minister to talk to the angry christian or an ignorant christian?
I respect both men & have benefitted from each one's knowledge. I'm not going to see someone as my enemy due to what appears to be a personal conflict between two elders. That's TRIBALISM. I don't agree with using the same system that was responsible for Jim Crow/Slave Code laws & looked the other way while our people were being lynched...to resolve OUR issues. We are the creators of civilization and we wrote the first laws anyway. Disagreements aren't new to us. Even brothers & sisters born of the same parents can be at odds with one another. I suggest that we look to the Motherland for guidance. Why not call a council of elders & learned people who can hear both sides of the story objectively & resolve the issue fairly? Someone like Dr. Ben, if he is well, can be the judge or the Chief Elder, rather. It can be an internet conference. Most people's computers have built in cameras & microphones on them. Let's put them to good use! Rise up! & Unite!
---------- Post added at 10:18 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:07 AM ----------
My sentiments exactly!
i live in the neighborhood of the The Afrikan Village and used to hear, with utter delight, Brother Hagin's cable t.v. lectures about 2 years ago, and was impressed, so impressed, in fact, that i visited one sunday a.m. In person he was a vibrant vessel of RiteKnowledge and the Collective were loving and friendly. (Later that evening, though, someone from the Village left a message on my answer machine saying, paraphrased, "We know all about you and We welcome you to our cause." Did they mean they knew about my sexual orientation, and if so, from whom, because i recogonized absolutely no one there, lol My first inclination was to pass this one up, lol). Anyway, i exited that late morning with additional insight into how the enemy attempts to control what and how we perceive the world and ouselves relative to it. i have not returned since, though, because i assumed that my sexual orientation would not be appreciated unless i kept secrets, and i will NOT allow anyone to feel comfortable in their alienation from my and Our complex realities as a people. And, well, there was the issue of The Afrikan Village referring to itself as a church. And that they meet on, gulp!, sunday mornings. Even thinking about it now makes me uneasy. Why? Well, because if one of the goals of mental decolonization is to detach our minds from christian practices, then why stubbornly refer to one's place of RightKnowledge as a church, and why meet on a christian sabbath day? A minor inconveniece is what some may think, but i have spent too many years dialoguing with Afrikan youth about liberation, only to be seen walking into a building that was a prominent church in the neighborhood. Certainly, too many in the hood do not know that what's said inside does not reflect the building in which it is housed. To have some former students see me walk into The Afrikan Village and think, "But i thought Mr. Kimathi said he don't follow behind Jesus no more," undermines what little credibility i may have had. Yea, i know it is silly to allow someone else's ignorance determine my movements, but unchaining the others is more than just a verbal affair, it is also image-driven (i.e., We can teach others by the way we dress, what we shop for in groceries, and where we are seen hanging out, etc).
Perhaps this is not the rite thread for all the above...
So, i will make my point now and move on: i hope the two Brothers have reconciled at this point in time and space. Dividing and conquering Ourselves is worse that being d & c from the others...
Why would he snitch??
What's puzzling is Ashra Kwesi hasn't denied anything Ray Hagins has said publicly, at least not to my knowledge of the matter. He has not refuted or affirmed any of it. This leads me to believe what Ray Hagins has said about Ashra Kwesi is true. If anyone was going around lying on you then surely you would confront them on the matter. Now, if a prominent person, whose words carry weight, and is reknown in certain scholarly circles, starts to release information about you and your character that would be damaging to your credibility in the very areas that your scholarship is in, namely MA'AT, then it seems, more likely than not, you would come out and defend your honor and your credibility.
At this particular juncture I am definitely inclined to believe every word of Ray Hagins' communication and I don't have any reason to doubt him, or to believe he is a liar, or he is "out to get" Ashra Kwesi in some vindictive sort of way. Ashra has a reputation in certain circles to be arrogant, haughty, snobbish and exudes an air of superiority.
Until Ashra makes a statement to the contrary, I will side with Ray Hagins if for nothing else, than for his honesty, dignity and spirit of conciliatory brotherhood. If all that he says is true about Ashra Kwesi's character, then I will say that Kwesi needs some serious couch time, big time.
I am not Baptist, Christian, Muslim, Catholic, Jew, Budhist, Hindu, Yoruba, or Egyptologist. Nor am I a follower of the African Village or Ray Hagins. RIGHT IS RIGHT, AND WRONG IS WRONG. AND MA'AT RULES WITH ME.
As a further analysis in this matter -- If Ashra Kwesi so dislikes Baptist Preachers and christians, then why did he go to Ray Hagins' church from jump street? Why did he establish a relationship with members of Ray Hagins' church and take many of them on a PAID tour of Egypt? And the killer of all killers, WHAT WAS ASHRA KWESI'S REAL MOTIVE FOR JOINING RAY HAGINS' CHURCH?
And as far as I'm concerned the teacher doesn't know everything. Teachers are reknown for making mistakes, but that doesn't take away from their credibility as a teacher, instead it is an attestment to their humanity like everyone of us. Ashra Kwesi is not GOD, nor he is infallible, and anyone that says he is, is delirious.
What is it that would make one believe they can own knowledge exclusively? Even after you have paid for it? Just because you do tours in Egypt does not make you the keeper of the knowledge of ALL Egypt. It doesn't make you "own" Egypt. Many are speaking of Ashra Kwesi as some sort of "gatekeeper" to the sacred knowledge of Egypt. That is absolutely insane. Ashra Kwesi doesn't own Egypt or the planes that take people there, or the buses that take the tours around Egypt. That westernized capitalist mentality has taken over the minds of the very people who say that they are about freeing the minds of the people to think for themselves.
If I go to school, and pay for it, and then take what I learned in school, and put it with my own learning and observations, and then apply my knowledge to a business venture, does that make me a plagiarizer? A thief? So if Ray Hagins goes on a PAID trip to Egypt, makes a video, and then publishes it and sells it, does that make him a thief and a plagiarizer? Get real. That is the dumbest thing I've heard. So, in other words, no one has the right to speak on Egypt but Ashra Kwesi. That is insane. I think most of these Egyptologists have lost their minds.
Now I know what Dr. Amos Wilson really meant when he spoke out about Egyptologists. They get so far stuck off into Egypt that they aren't good for anybody but themselves. It's a damn shame.
"We see many of us along the highways and byways being very boastful, being very egocentric, bragging a great deal, pumping ourselves up, pumping even small achievements up into giant achievements. We see it even infecting the Black Nationalist community that buries itself in the great history of Egypt and the great empires of Afrika. Yes, I am speaking of the kind of historicism that has developed in this community as a means of not confronting reality! Of people who live their lives in history, and dig among the pyramids of Egypt, and dig among the lost kingdoms of Mali and Songhai, and who build themselves a false pride, and pump themselves up about the achievements of our history - without facing the perils of current reality and preparing themselves for the future. The Black Nationalist who makes us feel good - and pumps us up; and makes us gloat and glow about our great past, and does not deal with the present; and does not educate in terms of coping with the future; and does not adequately prepare us to remove the European from power, to remove these insane people who are about to destroy the earth and life itself - is functioning in the interest of the status quo. And those people who holler about the devilishness of the White man, the evilness of the White man, and leave it at that, still are not necessarily performing a full service for our people. There must be other things involved. We see then, many individuals blowing up their minor accomplishments as a means of ignoring the realities of their situation. "
Dr. Amos Wilson, The Falsification of Afrikan Consciousness pgs. 75, 75
This conflict isn't about Brothers disagreeing. That is like saying: the smoking gun FOI agents that killed Malcolm had surface disagreements that could be worked out. We got to look at how police officer Hagin is connected to the police fraternal order that want to emprison Assata Shukur and often times anyone one that is driving while Black. That data and much more is in the article and link below... For those of you that don't know, this is an oft repeating gameplan, covert act of war against us that we must defensively respond to, brother... The call of alarm is out and to protect our ranks we must EXPOSE the inflitrator...
For those of us that stand by and hope that "Can we just get along" actually help them attack us. Hopefuly, this post will unplug you from the matrix of apathy toward Maatic activity in the real world.
Tuesday, February 16, 2010
RAY HAGINS EXPOSED: CONSCIOUS AGENTS OF WHITE SUPREMACY AND CONFUSED AFRIKANS by Mukasa Afrika Ma'at
RAY HAGINS EXPOSED:
CONSCIOUS AGENTS OF WHITE SUPREMACY AND CONFUSED AFRIKANS
by Mukasa Afrika Ma'at
Let me start with a few questions. Let’s say you were doing the great work of helping to liberate the mind and spirit of Afrikan people, fighting the good fight, and engaged in war for our people. Let’s say someone came along and acted as if they were your student and then maliciously slandered your name after plagiarizing your work for their profit, wouldn’t you expect the Afrikan conscious community to stand up for your contributions? If a segment of the “conscious” community didn’t stand up but instead made it seem like you did something wrong, what does that say about our state of mind as a people? On the face of this Earth, what people do not defend their elder warriors from agents and counter revolutionaries?
On March 14, 2009, I posted to my blog the article “You Call this a Debate! Setting the Record Straight: The Nile Valley, Afrikan, Master Teacher and The Bleeding Heart, Slanderous, Christian Plagiarist”
( http://afrikan-history.blogspot.com/...is-debate.html ).
Hagins received my article I’m sure. However, he didn’t respond and I didn’t expect it. I did upset a whole lot of his supporters who didn’t know any better, those who had barely heard of Baba Ashra Kwesi and knew little of his monumental work for Afrikan people. These were basically unconscious Christians and neo-Christians who had heard Hagins on Michael Baisden’s pop-culture radio show. Somewhat to my surprise was a whole set of supposedly conscious Afrikans who were fooled and confused into thinking that Hagins was some kind of an elder. Some of these supposedly conscious Afrikans told me that I needed to stay out of this fight and let these two elders handle their disagreement alone.
I could only think to myself “How stupid have we become!” This entire incident told me that we really lack principle - one of the points I made in the past article. We lack Afrikan principle and we are willing for an agent of white supremacy to come into our camp, plagiarize a highly respected elder, defame this elder, and make it seem like a disagreement among fellow scholars. If Hagins is proved to be an agent of white supremacy, which he has been, what does that say about the negroes who supported him or who still support him, even after facts have been presented? Through ignorance and their own unprincipled stand, they have become complicit.
Now some simply wanted to be neutral and not support either side. These are the ones who especially begged me to stay out of the fight which was not a fight in the first place. I attempted to keep the original article political correct. Well, I’m taking the gloves off now because I’m basically disgusted by negroes who keep pretending to be Afrikans. You can’t be neutral when outright lies are being told and claim you follow Ma’at. We don’t go to settle a dispute at any elders’ council when a disputant is an enemy of Afrikan people. You call a snake a snake. You take sides. You stand up. For those who did not stand up, who allowed these ignorant brothers and sisters to say that Plagiarizing Bleeding Heart Hagins was an elder to Afrikans and equal to Baba Kwesi, they need to reassess their own Afrikan conciousness. If you think that not standing up to defend this respected elder is right, I’ll say you not only disgrace this elder brother’s work, you disgrace the ancestors. If you still refuse to defend Kwesi against Hagins, an agent as I will prove him to be in this article, then I’m sure you would not have defended John Henrik Clarke, Malcolm X, or Marcus Garvey. You probably would have turned Harriet Tubman over to the enemy for gold and silver. You and Agent Hagins might even turn Assata Shakur over to the New Jersey friend of Hagins who is one of many law officers in that state who would like to falsely imprison our revolutionary mother. I’ll explain more about this friend of Hagins shortly and exactly why the Bleeding Heart is also a Porkchop Agent of white supremacy.
On this issue, yes, I take sides. Baba Kwesi has done monumental work for Afrikan consciousness. Hagins is a plagiarist and a counter-revolutionary, an agent and a confused preacher. If you defend him against Kwesi, you are complicit in his plot whomever you are.
Almost a year later from my original article, Porkchop Special Agent has not sent out any more “Open Letters” defaming Baba Kwesi. In his “Open Letter” addressed to the community, Hagins made a number of outright lies. I can’t address them all here. You should see my original article. Nonetheless, the Agent made the following three major points in his letter, all slanderous, all lies:
1. Porkchop Hagins lied and said Kwesi was traveling all around the country and slandering his name. There are no quotes of statements from Kwesi about Hagins, no videos, no interviews, etc. Kwesi has never said anything about Hagins in public. Only once in Chicago did Kwesi have to correct someone in the audience who mistakenly thought Kwesi was on Hagins’ tour. In fact, Hagins went on Kwesi’s tour and developed the unauthorized video and sold it as if it were his tour, essentially confusing people like this particular brother in Chicago. On the other hand: there are videos of Agent Porkchop slandering Kwesi; there are interviews, quotes, and his two slanderous Open Letters. We have evidence and now we also have connections.
2. Porkchop Hagins begged the Afrikan community to regard Baba Kwesi as an enemy. If Hagins is not a paid agent, he may as well be because he is doing an agent’s work. All kinds of criminals at least get paid for their dirt.
3. Hagins said that we should not buy the videos, support the lecyures, or go on the tours of Baba Kwesi. These are the same videos, lectures, and tours that have revolutionized the consciousness of brothers and sisters not only in the United States but all around the world. Do you still think Hagins is not a counter-revolutionary? After plagiarizing Baba Kwesi’s work, he was trying to steal his base of support. Do you still think he is not an agent of white supremacy?
Baba Ashra Kwesi has never responded to Porkchop Agent Hagins because he knew the plot. Porkchop removed the letter from his website and I was told that he made public apologies about it, none directly to Kwesi. Hagins showed his motives in public with his letters and put his foot ankle deep in his mouth to begin with in the first place. As a result, he apologized for his lies and was attempting to salvage his image.
Porkchop Agent Hagins had clearly failed in his mission to defame our beloved elder and steal his base. Yet, the plot thickens, and in steps a young brother named Sa Ra Suten Seti who is well known through his sensationalized internet videos. Let me first say that I don’t totally agree with Seti’s delivery. His attempt is to reach the Hip-Hop generation, but his videos are not meant for children. Although I don’t fully agree with the language of his delivery, Seti’s information about Afrikan people is accurate. His analyses of religion and history are accurate. He clearly dissects the dynamics of white supremacy. Seti was on point about the Obama administration back when negroes were crying over the inauguration. In fact, it is because of Seti that Hagins was forced to expose himself even further.
Brother Seti discovered that Porkchop Agent Hagins was friends on Facebook with a Sheriff Jerry Speziale. Seti said in one of his videos that Hagins was “cold busted” for being an agent. He discussed the irony of Hagins a preacher and police officer, calling Baba Kwesi an enemy. In the “Open Letter” which Agent Hagins addressed to Baba Kwesi, he stated towards the end of the letter that he would prosecute Baba Kwesi to the fullest extent of the law. Initially, I took this to mean that Agent Hagins would file a suit against Kwesi, as I had stated in the original article. However, now we have found that Hagins has known and been connected with Sheriff Jerry Speziale for 25 years and has been so close that he did the prayer at the sheriff’s installment ceremony! Porkchop Hagins is also a member of the Fraternal Order of the Police, who are some of the most anti-Assata and anti-Mumia racist cops in the country. We know this because Brother Seti exposed the agent. In a letter to Seti, this is what Hagins said, and I quote:
“If you had called and asked me (before making yourself look like an a**) you would have known that Sheriff Jerry Speziale and I grew up in the same town (Paterson, Passaic County, NJ) and have known each other for many years. You would have also known that as pastors in the City of Paterson, NJ, my mother and I served for years as Chaplains for the Sheriff's Dept. (Even before Jerry became Sheriff). In fact, even though he is Catholic, he requested that I give the prayer at his installment ceremony. So, of course he would be a FB friend!
I have already received about 25 messages telling me how "crazy" you are. Seti, I don't want to hear stuff like that about you or any brother.
You referred to me as "Officer Ray Hagins" and concluded by saying "you have been busted." LOL! You also called me a "covert operative" in our community.
Seti, my background in law enforcement not a secret! All one has to do is read my bio on my website (which evidently you haven't done). In fact, the NY Chapter of The Afrikan Village is composed largely of the members of 100 Blacks In Law Enforcement (of which I am an affiliate member as well). I presently serve as the President of Black Cops Against Police Brutality for the State of Missouri. So what? I am also a member of the Fraternal Order of Police! So what?”
The Fraternal Order of the Police, of which Hagins is a member, to this day pushes for the death penalty against our brother Mumia Abu-Jamal though evidence has proven him innocent. The FOP has supported racist cops all across this country in cases of police brutality and excessive force against innocent people. The FOP has known about dirty cops in law enforcement and done nothing. The FOP lobbies government for the illegal kidnap and imprisonment of Assata. Why hasn't Porkchop ever said anything about Assata, Mumia, or political prisoners? Imagine that, half-conscious negroes running around defending this Porkchop member of the FOP and friend of Speziale, calling him an elder while he defames a tried and true warrior.
Hagins has defended his connection with Speziale. The question is then who is Sheriff Speziale? Honest cop? Good guy? Or someone who is as crooked and as deceitful as Hagins? The New Jersey Civil Rights Defense Committee has some ideas about this racist Speziale. The NJCRDC pushed to prosecuted Sheriff Speziale for kidnap, illegal detention, torture, and murder. When spending a couple of years building their case for crimes against US citizens and immigrants by the government, the NJCRDC had this to say:
We will present first-hand and media accounts of torture, illegal detention and murder. The NJCRDC has been in direct contact with detainees across NJ county jails for the past couple of years. Some former detainees will be present to describe what they endured—detention without charge or trial. We will document the US laws that prohibit what has been occurring. And we will present memos and other documents that directly link these crimes to those who are in charge of detention and torture facilities like Sheriff Jerry Speziale, General Miller and General Sanchez, and to policy makers like Rumsfeld, Tom Ridge, Alberto Gonzalez and G.W. Bush.
Defendants will include: Bush, Rumsfeld, Gonzales, Ridge, Gen. Miller, Sherrif Jerry Speziale, and Clinton, for his role in proposing the 1996 laws used to justify most detentions.
Sheriff Speziale is more than suspect, more than corrupt, and he is a long time friend of Special Agent Porkchop. It was his state, New Jersey, where the State Police, the FBI, and the Department of Justice raised money for the illegal million-dollar bounty placed on Assata Shakur in 2005. In 2005, Speziale was already Sheriff. He supports this illegal bounty on Assata Shakur. It was the State Police in New Jersey that asked the Pope in 1997 for his support in illegally returning Assata to the state to continue her false imprisonment. Speziale and the FOP support the illegal kidnap and imprisonment of our revolutionary mother. As he confessed himself, Porkchop Agent Hagins conducted a prayer for racist Speziale, this lawman who is responsible for the kidnapping and torturing of people in New Jersey according to the NJ Civil Rights Defense Committee. As he confessed to himself, Porkchop Agent Hagins has been friends with him for 25 years, and to this day defends this “friendship,” connection I should say. Where do you think Porkchop stands on the issue with our dear revolutionary mother? If he attacked Assata, which is not beneath him if he could get away with it and profit in doing so, these negroes would say it’s a disagreement that needs to be worked out between Assata and Hagins. That might sound crazy, but that’s exactly what has happened with Porkchop attacking Baba Kwesi. Negroes said these elders needed to work things out. They didn’t call a snake a snake or an agent an agent. Hagins is a member of the FOP and connected to Speziale - what has he ever said in defense of Assata, Mumia, and political prisoners? The FOP is anti-Assata, anti-Mumia, and anti-political prisoners. Hagins is not loyal to Afrikan people, our struggle, or our liberation. Hagins is loyal to the FOP. Hagins is loyal to Speziale. And again, pathetic half-conscious negroes supported this agent. Instead of defending an agent, they should have been defending Kwesi, defending Assata and Mumia, defending Afrikan Consciousness.
That brings me to my conclusion here. We urgently need to reassess and realign Afrikan Consciousness. Unfortunately, it was more than your average unconscious sister or brother who didn’t see through Hagins’ plot. Many of our supposedly “conscious” brothers and sisters got wrapped up in the plot and even defended him. They will not be so quick to defend him now. We’ve been running around calling people centered and conscious too loosely. Obviously because someone uses some catchy words, wears Afrikan clothes, or natural hair, that alone does not make them conscious or concerned about Afrikan people. These pathetic, superficial definitions of consciousness is what led people to think that Porkchop Chit’lin’ Preacher Agent Officer Hagins was conscious and spiritual. This same pathetic, superficial idea of consciousness is what led millions to believe that Obama was a benefit to Afrikan people. This guy, Obama, is dropping drone bombs on innocent people overseas. He’s pushing neo-colonialism throughout Afrika. He’s ripping off the public and enriching the treasure troves of Wall Street by the hundreds of billions. He's outdoing Bush. (I’ll have more on this Obama-madness on my blog later.) My concluding point here is that we must reassess and realign Afrikan Consciousness because we allowed an agent (Porkchop) to be played up as an elder while defaming a true and committed elder warrior at the same time, an elder who has given 30 years of his life to raise our people. We allowed this enemy in our camp, in our house, and he got way to close to one of our elders. We need to now look at everyone in the house, everyone in the camp. Who was guarding the door? Who did we have on post? Who fell asleep? A select few of us defended our elder, but we also had to fight some who were dressed like us defending the enemy, trying to get our elder to sit next to the agent at the same table. Yes, we need to reassess and realign our Afrikan Consciousness, and we need to put some people out of our house.
Mukasa Afrika Ma’at
Founder of Laying the Foundation and Ma'at-Sumu
Author of the Redemption of Afrikan Spirituality
Author of Afrikan-Centered Sbayt: Education for Liberation
The light is beginning to shine bright on this pork-chop AGENT Ray Hagins