Ifa Odu Forbids Homosexuality

[BlkRoots]

Originally Posted by AnUppityNegrow

First, I am very tired of people perpetuating the myth that Africans did not engage in homosexuality before the arrival of Europeans. There have been enough documented studies to prove otherwise ...

The evidence proving the existence of homosexuality in Africa goes back to ancient antiquity.

Begin practicing true Ifa and accept humanity the way the omnipotent God created it. That includes homosexuals who are as capable of being upstanding as anyone else. Enough of the ignorance, divisiveness, and hatred already!

The fact that black people engaged in homosexual behaviour does not imply that our ancient societies accepted it. People have been committing murders, rapes and thefts for millenia. There are laws against such behaviour simply because it's unacceptable and forbidden by the gods and ancestors.
Your logic of implying that it must be right because it has been done would have us condoning murder and slavery because both have been done for ages.
In the culture of the Zulu, Basotho etc of southern Africa that you cite in your defense, there are also divine laws against it such as that quoted by Ifasehun in the initial posting.
We have very strict ancient laws that even go further in forbidding 'standing sexual activity' by forbidding anal and oral sex between men and women.

Black Roots

[AnUppityNegrow]

There are many ways to help people. I think I will pass on your invitation to join you and seek instead to put my efforts toward assisting humanity and my brothers and sisters in the African diaspora in effect by working with more welcoming, emotionally evolved African warriors who do not seek to divide and hate their own people over things such as who they choose to love. I will go on record as saying I am much happier seeing two black men loving one another than I am in seeing them kill one another. I truly feel that your hatred and animus is a terrible, misguided form of psychic violence and death, as well as a poison to you and the African community.

[Im The Truth]

Greetings and Welcome,

Are you telling me that one member's statements will stop you from help Our People? this forum is fill with information and action. Please check out the rest of Our (all of ours and yours) site and be sure to do your part in the Action Alert.

Thank You.

Originally Posted by AnUppityNegrow

There are many ways to help people. I think I will pass on your invitation to join you and seek instead to put my efforts toward assisting humanity and my brothers and sisters in the African diaspora in effect by working with more welcoming, emotionally evolved African warriors who do not seek to divide and hate their own people over things such as who they choose to love. I will go on record as saying I am much happier seeing two black men loving one another than I am in seeing them kill one another. I truly feel that your hatred and animus is a terrible, misguided form of psychic violence and death, as well as a poison to you and the African community.

Originally Posted by IfasehunReincarnated

I am sure you didnt join this forum for the sole purpose of talking about homsexuality (although its the only thread you've posted to yet), I look forward to seeing you post on Political Prisoners, Police Brutality, Gender Issues, Children, Revolution etc. etc.

And of course Please join me in supporting the Assata Shakur Action Alert Campaign. www.assatashakur.org/resist.htm

A link to the Action Alert forum is here.

Eager to see your comments in areas where we can all agree - helping people.

[IfasehunReincarnated]

Originally Posted by AnUppityNegrow

There are many ways to help people. I think I will pass on your invitation to join you and seek instead to put my efforts toward assisting humanity and my brothers and sisters in the African diaspora in effect by working with more welcoming, emotionally evolved African warriors who do not seek to divide and hate their own people over things such as who they choose to love. I will go on record as saying I am much happier seeing two black men loving one another than I am in seeing them kill one another. I truly feel that your hatred and animus is a terrible, misguided form of psychic violence and death, as well as a poison to you and the African community.

Sorry to hear you have declined to aid the only Pan-Afrikan Hurricane Relief Project in the entire country.

[QueenWarriorNefertari]

Originally Posted by AnUppityNegrow

I truly feel that your hatred and animus is a terrible, misguided form of psychic violence and death, as well as a poison to you and the African community.

As-Salaamu Alaikum, my Brother.

First, THIS IS NOT AN ATTACK ON YOU. I want that overstood as I speak to you here.

I'm curious as to how Ifasehun's offering of information as proof of his own life practices, beliefs, etc. you automatically construe as HATRED???

Do any of us have to AGREE with anyone's way of life just to not hate it??? It's not about hating, being negative about, or separate from our gay/lesbian sisters and brothers; it's about trying to study how it all began, and what each of us will believe and live by as the origin and truth of sexual/love behavior.

To each His/Her own... so why are you so defensive, Brother? No need to feel that way with your people here. Your Brothers and Sisters. Nor any reason to become hostile simply because you Disagree. Emotional attacking does nothing for either of us.

I just felt a spirit you don't want to evoke, but possible couldn't help to, being driven by your emotions on this subject. Felt the Divine in me wanting to address that and you, as on your first day on the site, most of it was spent Here and in such a depleting to your soul's energy way.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Baba Ifa, as always...Tua Ntr for your continuous, consistent sharing knowledge, resources and information. However I feel or think about a subject, I am sure to get a thorough account of things to think about on it from you. Peace.

[AnUppityNegrow]

OK, this site and the people on it don't seem to be the community I am looking for. I don't need to be attacked, put down, have my words twisted, then called defensive and be made to feel like I should be guilty for not wanting to participate. As a final gesture of "brotherhood" please tel me how I can terinate my registration in this site. Good luck building "community".

[RecoveringAA]

Originally Posted by AnUppityNeGrow

OK, this site and the people on it don't seem to be the community I am looking for

I am saddened to hear this. BE~fore you leave (if that is your final answer), would you share with me the type of community you are seeking?

[AnUppityNegrow]

Yes, I really do want to have my membership terminated here. If you look at my posts I think you will get an idea of the kind of community I am looking for. For starters, it is one that welcomes all children of the African diaspora who seek to learn about their roots, their history, and their stolen culture, without judging them or defining them as "unAfrican" because of who they choose to love (as long as who they choose to love are consenting adults not related by blood). I also seek a community that is genuinely interested in African history and culture- NOT one that revises African history to support its own internalized Western biased opinions. I seek a community that is willing to critique itself and its biases that develop as a result of our being Africans in America who have been fully indoctrinated in Western thinking. These biases include internalized hatred, homophobia, and the oppressor's way of dividing and conquering using sex, color, sexuality and class. We as Africans in the diaspora need to understand and acknowledge our diversity while owning up to just how Western we are, and how we need to unlearn the harmful Western ideas that divide us and hold us back.

It is my position that homophobia, like colorism, is one of the things that hold us back. It holds us back because we use it to ostracize and marginalize our brothers and sisters. In so doing we create psychic harm to them by isolating them, and to ourselves because what goes around, comes around. By marginalizing them, we also make it difficult if not impossible for them to feel welcome and contribute in the struggle. This means that their talent and potential is ignored and wasted. In order to be accepted, they often feel compelled to lie about who they are to their friends, relatives and loved ones. They are destroyed spiritually and physically as a result. Often those who forced them to lie in order to be accepted end up hurt as well. Homophobia creates a cycle of pain that is unnecessary, destructive and useless. Nobody benefits from it. There have always been homosexuals. There existence has not stopped procreaton among heterosexuals.

I find it interesting that in Africa there are people who have never seen a white person, yet are homosexual, but here in America we want to claim homosexualtiy is unAfrican mainly because homosexuals are stigmatized in the West. We are caught in a psychological catch 22 when it comes to homosexuality and homophobia- we don't want to claim that it exists because we are ashamed of it, but it does exist, so we blame it on our oppressor because our oppressor hates it and whatever the oppressor hates, we must hate too. By so doing, we seek to differentiate ourselves and make ourselves feel superior to our oppressor, yet the irony is that we are using the oppressor's ideology and way of thinking to do so.

The fact that homosexuality existed in Africa prior to Western contact and is recorded in myths, and was not seen as a bad thing in some communities is viewed with disdain and defensiveness by Africans in the diaspora. They want Africa to be what their internalized Western biases would prefer. They want it to conform to their imaginary concepts of pure heterosexuality; and they want it to never change from those biases and concepts. Wherever Africa proves their beliefs wrong, they blame Westerners for "corrupting" it. They want to teach about the diversity of Africa's cultures and ethnicities, but only insofar as they conform to Western biases that make them acceptable, and therefore pure and somehow superior to the West. In other words, they are hypocrites. Africa is a diverse, dynamic continent. It always has been. It does not conform to anybody's biases and fantasies. It never has. I seek a community that understands and accepts Africa and Africans as they are and seeks to build us all up through unity. Not one that thrives off of its internalizd biases while dividing and hating its own members, psychically destroying them, then asking for their help, as long as they are true to that part of themselves that is black, but not that part of themselves that is same gender loving.

I thought I had found such a community when I joined this list, but based on the dialogue that has ensued, I see that I was mistaken. I will seek a sense of community elsewhere, or build one of my own, starting with what my heart, spirit, and ancestors tell me. If Ifa doesn't appeal to me because of its homophobia, or for any other reason, I will cease to adhere to it and find another African belief system that suits my needs. Africa is big enough, and their are enough belief systems in it for me to be sure to find a good match. Please remove me from this list.

Thank you.

[DJ RBG]

Originally Posted by AnUppityNegrow

OK, this site and the people on it don't seem to be the community I am looking for. I don't need to be attacked, put down, have my words twisted, then called defensive and be made to feel like I should be guilty for not wanting to participate. As a final gesture of "brotherhood" please tel me how I can terinate my registration in this site. Good luck building "community".

well dayum (*in chris tuckers voice on friday) leaving so soon? I cant say I am upset about it, my view of homosexuals is they are just some sick, mentally disturbed, anti-human, doo doo chasers, who puts the giver of life, the penis into the valley of death the anus, all that exits the anus is dead yuk, does that make me homophobic? perhaps, I really dont see much difference between two men poking each other in the ass and a man and a little boy getting poked in the ass, both episodes are sick to me. so Captain Promental-shit-backwash-psychosis-enema-slop hope you get help and get straight... *utt ohh, I hear sandman's horn blowing from the apollo*

[RecoveringAA]

Originally Posted by AnUppityNegrow

Yes, I really do want to have my membership terminated here. If you look at my posts I think you will get an idea of the kind of community I am looking for. For starters, it is one that welcomes all children of the African diaspora who seek to learn about their roots, their history, and their stolen culture, without judging them or defining them as "unAfrican" because of who they choose to love (as long as who they choose to love are consenting adults not related by blood). I also seek a community that is genuinely interested in African history and culture- NOT one that revises African history to support its own internalized Western biased opinions. I seek a community that is willing to critique itself and its biases that develop as a result of our being Africans in America who have been fully indoctrinated in Western thinking. These biases include internalized hatred, homophobia, and the oppressor's way of dividing and conquering using sex, color, sexuality and class. We as Africans in the diaspora need to understand and acknowledge our diversity while owning up to just how Western we are, and how we need to unlearn the harmful Western ideas that divide us and hold us back.

It is my position that homophobia, like colorism, is one of the things that hold us back. It holds us back because we use it to ostracize and marginalize our brothers and sisters. In so doing we create psychic harm to them by isolating them, and to ourselves because what goes around, comes around. By marginalizing them, we also make it difficult if not impossible for them to feel welcome and contribute in the struggle. This means that their talent and potential is ignored and wasted. In order to be accepted, they often feel compelled to lie about who they are to their friends, relatives and loved ones. They are destroyed spiritually and physically as a result. Often those who forced them to lie in order to be accepted end up hurt as well. Homophobia creates a cycle of pain that is unnecessary, destructive and useless. Nobody benefits from it. There have always been homosexuals. There existence has not stopped procreaton among heterosexuals.

I find it interesting that in Africa there are people who have never seen a white person, yet are homosexual, but here in America we want to claim homosexualtiy is unAfrican mainly because homosexuals are stigmatized in the West. We are caught in a psychological catch 22 when it comes to homosexuality and homophobia- we don't want to claim that it exists because we are ashamed of it, but it does exist, so we blame it on our oppressor because our oppressor hates it and whatever the oppressor hates, we must hate too. By so doing, we seek to differentiate ourselves and make ourselves feel superior to our oppressor, yet the irony is that we are using the oppressor's ideology and way of thinking to do so.

The fact that homosexuality existed in Africa prior to Western contact and is recorded in myths, and was not seen as a bad thing in some communities is viewed with disdain and defensiveness by Africans in the diaspora. They want Africa to be what their internalized Western biases would prefer. They want it to conform to their imaginary concepts of pure heterosexuality; and they want it to never change from those biases and concepts. Wherever Africa proves their beliefs wrong, they blame Westerners for "corrupting" it. They want to teach about the diversity of Africa's cultures and ethnicities, but only insofar as they conform to Western biases that make them acceptable, and therefore pure and somehow superior to the West. In other words, they are hypocrites. Africa is a diverse, dynamic continent. It always has been. It does not conform to anybody's biases and fantasies. It never has. I seek a community that understands and accepts Africa and Africans as they are and seeks to build us all up through unity. Not one that thrives off of its internalizd biases while dividing and hating its own members, psychically destroying them, then asking for their help, as long as they are true to that part of themselves that is black, but not that part of themselves that is same gender loving.

I thought I had found such a community when I joined this list, but based on the dialogue that has ensued, I see that I was mistaken. I will seek a sense of community elsewhere, or build one of my own, starting with what my heart, spirit, and ancestors tell me. If Ifa doesn't appeal to me because of its homophobia, or for any other reason, I will cease to adhere to it and find another African belief system that suits my needs. Africa is big enough, and their are enough belief systems in it for me to be sure to find a good match. Please remove me from this list.

Thank you.

Akpe Kaka for caring enough to share this with US. As you have stated your intent, plz go in Peace and Love and my Spirit prays you find that which you seek.

[OsunkoyaIfayomi]

Wrong is wrong sick is sick, whatever it is if it is destructive behavior then it's not good. Am I homophobic, I think not, again however that goes against the grain against nature, Same as other things. I smoke cigarettes. dont make it right, destructive behavior, you may call it something more or less, still I need to stop, same with anything else it is destuctive behavior, should I endorse the homosexual in his, her lifestyle I think not. that was not the Intent of The Almighty. just my 2 cents
Peace & Love
Ifayomi

[OsunkoyaIfayomi]

I guess what I am saying is just as I need healing from smoking the homosexual or what ever needs healing as well, but you cannot be healed as long as you call wrong right
Ifayomi

[SoularFlarez]

Was Kemet under Hyksos rule around 2040-1674 B.C ?? they were down with Set

[shango29]

page )1.This is one of the most sensitive topics dealing with homo- sexual/gay/bi.transgender.i say that because it has nothing to do with intellect but emotional knowledge.we use our kulture as a reference for our mental,spiritual& physical ideals,morals,guidence in life.However we as a afrikan people coming out of the blindman's eye call religion are more open to the unknown or mysteries of life which baffles us

[GoodTimes]

I just stumbled upon this, but exactly what was so offensive and unwelcoming? Some people really only see what their eyes want to see, thats all. What I get is people are just trying to understand, not criticize. Thats the second homo I seen run off the board. Me personally, Im here for Black/African issues, not to argue, thats my mission. Some say that Haitian Vodoun accepts gays, but like every belief there are different sects. Also they didnt have "homosexuality" before European contact, if there was any instance of a man having relations with another man, he was still expected to carry on a heterosexual lifestyle, and produce kids. (In most instances.)