Ifa Odu Forbids Homosexuality

[IfasehunReincarnated]

Many have asked before "who do we know as black people that is wrong to have homosexual relationships" - at least one of you have asked me find scripture from an african religion that forbids such conduct. I had the info, but I needed to dig around for it. As the topic is a closed one for me, I dont keep the "proof" readily handy.

This scriptures or Odu are from Ifa the manifestation of God's wisdom and teachings as personified and recorded by the Yoruba of Nigeria, passed on to mankind through the Prophet/Priest Orunmila (who coincedently taught Buddha in his early years).
Odu are usually considered more accurate than say Bible or Quron verses (no offense) because they can not only be verified in daily living, but anyone can seek divination and regardless of the source or diviner - the scripture should hold its validity in the findings provided. I Ching and Joytish, as well as other forms of divination protect the sacred nature of other scriptures in a similiar fashion. Because of this way a person doesnt have to blindly trust the word of anyone's opinion or strong assertion or sermon, but rather can have the moral dictate checked for himself. Of course many avoid the risk of asking, so that they can be afforded the priviledge to live in ignorance. In any case, you are empowered now with a truly African source to base your opinions.

Odu is considered the living word & unfailing wisdom of God.


Irete Iwori
Isu ire lo se e je epo
Epo ire lo se e je isu
obinrin du-un ba sun ju
bi o ba ba okunrin sun
bii koko bii eewo bii IKU bii agbaarin
bi o ba ba obinrin sun
bii layunkun bii layagba bii ladun momo
bii ladun mo ete
dia fun Orunmila
baba nlo gba Akala omo Orisa
e ma ma te'mo Orisa
e ma ma te'mo Orisa
e tee jeje
e ma ma te'mo Orisa

We eat yam with right oil
We use the right oil to eat yam
It is very sweet and enjoyable to make love
with a woman than a man
if you make love with a man
bumps, boils, mucus and other diseases develop
if you make love to a woman
it is pleasing, sweet and enjoyable
This was Ifa divination for Orunmila
When he was going to rescue Akala
The child of Oosa

Iwori Obara
o do ganganna
o kan ganganna
dia fun iwori
tii ti ndo aya re looro
iwori o o de bere
a ti se ndo ni looro d'omo
iwori o o de bere

you make love while standing
you make love while bending
this was the Ifa divination for Iwori
who always make love to his wife standing
Iwori kindly make love while lying down
It is wrong to make love while standing
(subtle reference to men being with each other)
Iwori kindly make love properly.

------------------

Next post: Does Homosexuality come from European culture?

[cornerkick]

I can only assume that this is directed at me (since you posted this around the same time you posted a response to me in another forum). If it is, the point is well taken. I'm not going to bother arguing with anyone on the issue of homosexuality, since there are more important things to discuss.

[IfasehunReincarnated]

well, i have posted it here and elsewhere before, but reading your message rekindled it. its not an attack, but in mind a continuation of the conversation - the need for black people to let go of our individuality, which is most often based in western (read white) lifestyles and examine the culture that was stripped of us. sexual activity is just as important as political activity in african terms. and i dont want you to think i am baiting you. feel free to stay of it as you wish.

my point is that on SO many levels we act outside of our african selves, because our assumptions about balance are based white roots. that goes as much for me as you, or anyone else for that matter. when looking at that way, none of us are exempt. this is just "one" of many things we need to reconsider as africans. - if we are serious about freedom.

again, i wanna stress - we all fail short of expressing and reclaiming our africanity. so while i am using our discussion to fuel this one, we can all take this opportunity to examine ANY part of us that we know is borrowed from white culture. so this isnt about snappin' at cornerkick. i hope you can dig that.

[Vision]

Alafia,

I've seen the odu you cite before but I've never seen the sourcebook cited where it comes from. Could you cite the book, or other source, of this odu?

[Kweku_Omowale]

also aboluye,the ones that guards the gate of death is also the orisa responsible for bringing dease and death,he is always with esu beside him,he just reminds people that desease and death goes hand in hand as well,odagbo! assante sane,kweku omowale, shangos- child,afrikan spirittualist,student of life
ahhh btw thank you so kindly for the link for the bantu cosmology,ashe! ps send brother kwaku words of encouragement as well ifa he needs it, kwaku is living knowledge for the afrikan family and the west side of chi town dont recgonize what they have as in term of living knowledge,assante sane,modupe o!

[AnUppityNegrow]

I've been looking at this homophobic thread for a while, and ignored it, but I have decided that it is my responsibility as a part of humanity to stand up to this small mindedness.

First, I am very tired of people perpetuating the myth that Africans did not engage in homosexuality before the arrival of Europeans. There have been enough documented studies to prove otherwise that it's really time to lay that lie to rest. Not only is it stupid, but it is un-African because it negates the existence of proven and documented behavior among Africans, and seeks to negate it due to the European sensibilities that have attached shame and hatred to such behavior. In other words, because Europeans hate homosexuals, people of African descent who suffer from low self esteem don't want to claim homosexuality as it existed in Africa and instead want to blame their oppressors for it. Grow up and get over it.

The evidence proving the existence of homosexuality in Africa goes back to ancient antiquity. The Kemetic god Set was homosexual, had an affair with the god Heru. When his semen was called forth and appeared on his forehead in the form of a silver moon, the god Thoth seized it and made it his symbol. Later, Europeans travelling in Africa as early as the 1500's-1600's documented homosexual behavior among people who had no contact with Europeans and which was corroborated by other non-Europeans. In other words, there is documented in writing and corroborated by Africans who had nothing to gain from doing so, evidence of homosexuality among people who had absolutely no exposure to Europeans. In the new world colonies, one of the first cases of sodomy involved an African slave who sexually molested an African youth and was put to death by strangulation. All of the above is documented and readily available. If anyone needs proof I will point you to it.

As it relates specifically to Yoruba culture, even today there are homosexuals who are adherents to Yoruba cosmology. Africans, contrary to the romanticized vision that clueless African Americans have of them, have always had dynamic, maleable cultures that have been able to survive by adapting to change. Ifa states that aside from the dates of birth and death, nothing is unchangeable. Doesn't that include Ifa itself? Ifa is also a belief system that speaks to ALL of humanity being connected and diverse, with the ultimate goal being to lead an upstanding life, regardless of sexual orientation and the like. Applying European sensibilities to an African belief system by projecting our biases and seeking to judge those who are different is perhaps the most ignorant, un-African and un-Ifa like thing any adherent can do.

Begin practicing true Ifa and accept humanity the way the omnipotent God created it. That includes homosexuals who are as capable of being upstanding as anyone else. Enough of the ignorance, divisiveness, and hatred already!

[IfasehunReincarnated]

I've been looking at this homophobic thread for a while, and ignored it, but I have decided that it is my responsibility as a part of humanity to stand up to this small mindedness.

First, I am very tired of people perpetuating the myth that Africans did not engage in homosexuality before the arrival of Europeans. There have been enough documented studies to prove otherwise that it's really time to lay that lie to rest. Not only is it stupid, but it is un-African because it negates the existence of proven and documented behavior among Africans, and seeks to negate it due to the European sensibilities that have attached shame and hatred to such behavior. In other words, because Europeans hate homosexuals, people of African descent who suffer from low self esteem don't want to claim homosexuality as it existed in Africa and instead want to blame their oppressors for it. Grow up and get over it.

Name one documented study by Name and Researcher that proves that homosexuality was a common practice in Afrika. In fact, since there are lots, please name FIVE, so I can crosscheck references. By the way, historical research is not normally called a "study". A "study" is an examination of present activity. The past usually falls into historical, anthropological etc etc. Please be sure to post those sources ASAP.

Also your rationale as to Europeans and Africans in regards to homosexuality is jumbled. Please reword. Can't make any sense of it.

The evidence proving the existence of homosexuality in Africa goes back to ancient antiquity. The Kemetic god Set was homosexual, had an affair with the god Heru. When his semen was called forth and appeared on his forehead in the form of a silver moon, the god Thoth seized it and made it his symbol.

Set and Heru never had sex. lol Please again, provide a source. I think you are getting the clash between Heru and Set confused. This clash is symbolic of your Will (Heru) maintaining dominion over your animal nature (Set). Lastly Thoth or Tehuti as he is correctly named, is symbolic of the Wisdom of God, knowledge of Past, Present and Future. He did not nor would he use anything birthed from Set (which symbolized lack of ethics and imbalance) as his symbol.

Later, Europeans travelling in Africa as early as the 1500's-1600's documented homosexual behavior among people who had no contact with Europeans and which was corroborated by other non-Europeans. In other words, there is documented in writing and corroborated by Africans who had nothing to gain from doing so, evidence of homosexuality among people who had absolutely no exposure to Europeans.

You make suggestion of multiple White and Non-White Sources, cite TWO of each please.

In the new world colonies, one of the first cases of sodomy involved an African slave who sexually molested an African youth and was put to death by strangulation. All of the above is documented and readily available. If anyone needs proof I will point you to it.

I won't argue whether one Afrikan man was was raped by another in America, but to be so sympathetic to homosexuality, I am surprised that you would COMPARE that rape to homosexuality. Are you saying that all homosexuals are silent rapists? With advocates like you, there is no reason to have enemies.

Also would you agree that "if" the account you give is correct, that many Afrikans were driven to do things that were uncommon and unreasonable to one another, perhaps by depression, rage, mental instability etc caused by the slave trade? Perhaps the same reason we know sell drugs, gangbang and prostitute our women? Or are you suggesting that we have always been gangbangers, pimps and drug dealers? If so, I'd have to say you are "quite the Afrikan" to believe such things about yourself.

As it relates specifically to Yoruba culture, even today there are homosexuals who are adherents to Yoruba cosmology. Africans, contrary to the romanticized vision that clueless African Americans have of them, have always had dynamic, maleable cultures that have been able to survive by adapting to change. Ifa states that aside from the dates of birth and death, nothing is unchangeable.

Doesn't that include Ifa itself? Ifa is also a belief system that speaks to ALL of humanity being connected and diverse, with the ultimate goal being to lead an upstanding life, regardless of sexual orientation and the like. Applying European sensibilities to an African belief system by projecting our biases and seeking to judge those who are different is perhaps the most ignorant, un-African and un-Ifa like thing any adherent can do.

The idea that "nothing is unchangeable" is a elementary concept of Ifa, often quoted by novices and charlatans to excuse certain behavior or desires. Older more traditional elders do not use the comment in that way. And NO Ifa is not changeable. Ifa is the divine wisdom of the Creator. It the foundation upon which human life exists. Odu are the sum total of every energy ever known or created and will be created. They need not change. They anticipated everything in life. They dont adapt. They already know before we know. That you would suggest that Odu bend to human interest is spiritually suspect. Dont tread in deep waters, unless you know the currents.

Begin practicing true Ifa and accept humanity the way the omnipotent God created it. That includes homosexuals who are as capable of being upstanding as anyone else. Enough of the ignorance, divisiveness, and hatred already!

Odu represents "true Ifa" as you state it. EVERYTHING is predicated on Odu, as again, Odu represent EVERY SINGL energy, situation, combination of situations that have, are or will ever be.

By the way, do you even have an Ifa Shrine? If not, exactly how would you be in the position to question what it is or isnt? I could see if you had it, had been through the rites... then we could debate all day...But since you don't... how can you? Its like I got a cannon and you have a scribbled drawing of one It aint the same thing.

[AnUppityNegrow]

The arrogance, hostility, hatred, bitterness, and combativeness in your response is palpable. I am not going to be enervated by a prolonged argument with someone who comes across as myopic, and very emotionally unevolved. With respect to the 'rape' by one African of another: the man was charged with "rape", I did not say that rape was equatable with love, and do not know if rape took place. For all I know the sex was consensual. Whether it was or not, the man was charged with rape. Your attempt to use that to put words into my mouth is specious.

Your attempt to force the direction of any potential dialogue to your choosing by demanding specific numbers of cites "ASAP", as if you were my professor or father is condescending, arrogant, and obvious. My original claim was that homosexuality existed in Africa prior to European contact, and that is where I will remain. Because Africans and homosexuals are hated and stigmatized universally, especially by Europeans, studies that focused on them, until very recently, were not considered worthwhile. There is however, documentation about both groups that dates back hundreds of years. I have gathered the following sites and cites for you to peruse. You doubtless will find fault with each and every one of them, but that is no matter. Your hatred and animus, along with your romanticized view of Africa which seems to stem from a need to feel connected to a heterosexually perfect African past that never existed in order to feel better about your present circumstance as a person of African descent are obvious, but cannot and will not ever change the reality which is being discovered now and will continue to be gathered with the fullness of time.

With respect to your adamant claim that Heru and Set did not have sex, as with many ancient tales, there is more than one version to look at. You seem to have latched on to only one, and out of arrogance, have chosen to interpret it the way you see fit, not the way ancient people in Kemet may have. That is your issue, not mine. I will begin my response with a look at this Kemetic myth, since it is appropriate to start at the beginning, and that, to me, is what Egypt is as it relates especially to Africa. I will then list information on homosexuality in Africa prior to colonialisation. Again, I don't expect you to be happy, since you do not seem to be very happy- at least not right now, with these sites, but that is of no consequence to me. I will also, unequivocally not engage in an argument over this with you.

Whether it comes through Ifa or Prozac, I wish you
PEACE.

1. Egyptian Third Gender (from http://gendertree.com/Egyptian%20third%20gender.htm)
Plutarch. Isis and Osiris.
Inscribed pottery shards discovered near ancient Thebes (now Luxor, Egypt), and dating from the Middle Kingdom (2000-1800 BCE), contain a listing of three genders of humanity: males, eunuchs, and females, in that order. (See Sethe, Kurt, "Die Aechtung feindlicher Fürsten, Völker und Dinge auf altägyptischen Tongefäßscherben des mittleren Reiches," in: Abhandlungen der Preussischen Akademie der Wissenschaften, Philosophisch-Historische Klasse, 1926, p. 61.)

In the Egyptian story of the creation of the archetypal beings (gods), the first being is male and female, and its name is Atum. Through asexual reproduction, Atum divides and creates two other beings, Shu and Tefnut. These two in turn produce another pair, Geb and Nut. Finally, Geb and Nut, the earth and the sky, combine and produce the two pairs of Isis and Osiris, and Seth and Nephthys. Isis exemplifies the reproductive female, Osiris the reproductive male, Seth the nonreproductive eunuch, and Nephthys the unmarried virgin .

This story of the origins of the archetypal beings recapitulates the cellular process of meiosis in sexual reproduction, in which chromosomes are doubled, then shuffled, then divided, then shuffled, and then divided again. Through this doubling, shuffling, and dividing, a single FM being, such as Atum, can eventually produce beings which are MM (Osiris), FF (Isis), MF (Nephthys), and FM (Seth).

The stories told about these archetypal beings support an understanding of Seth and Nephthys as third gender beings. For information see Wallis Budge's Gods of the Egyptians and Plutarch's treatise On Isis and Osiris. Seth and Nephthys are supposed to be a couple like Isis and Osiris, but they have no adventures together and no children. Nephthys spends all of her time with Isis, being of assistance to her in various ways. Seth, likewise, spends all of his time with Osiris and then with Osiris's son Horus, but unlike Nephthys he spends his time causing all kinds of havoc. Seth and Osiris are in competition for primacy among the archetypal beings. Seth kills Osiris by cutting him into pieces and scattering them all over Egypt, but Isis, with the aid of her sister Nephthys, gathers the pieces back together and revives him long enough for him to impregnate her. Isis then bears a son Horus, and Osiris goes to rule in the afterlife. Next Seth turns his attention to Horus, attempting to discredit him as a male by having sex with him. On his mother's advice, Horus catches Seth's ejaculate in his hand. He then brings the semen to Isis who sprinkles it on Seth's favorite food, (the non-sexually reproducing) lettuce, which Seth eats. Seth, thinking his semen is in Horus, although he has actually eaten it himself as salad dressing, appears with Horus before the judges who will determine who has primacy among the archetypal beings. Seth tells the judges to call to the semen so that it can respond telling where it is. They do, and much to Seth's surprise, the semen responds from his own belly, not from Horus's. Seth is disgraced and Horus assumes the role as prime archetypal being.

Another version of this story, referred to in the Book of the Dead, says Seth casts "filth" into the eye of Horus, causing it to emit liquid. What exactly is meant by filth is open to question. In response, Horus attacks the testicles of Seth. Perhaps Seth ejaculated into Horus's eye. In any case, Horus is always spoken of in terms of the regained strength of his eye, and Seth in terms of the loss of his virility.

Seth's behavior may be considered inappropriate and harmful, and he may lose face, but he is unquestionably a homosexual, which means a homosexual is one of the most ancient central archetypes in Egyptian mythology. And he is defined as having impotent testicles.

The intrigues among the archetypal beings have been interpreted to reflect not only human interactions, but the interaction of the Nile with the surrounding desert. The Nile is Osiris, who contributes the fluid that brings life. The dryness of the desert is Seth, who kills off life. When the desert dryness becomes too powerful, the river dries up and is divided into thousands of pools along the entire riverbed. The evaporated liquid comes together in the sky (female principle or Isis) and rain falls down, replenishing the river temporarily. The river brings forth new life (Horus) in the form of vegetation. Thus life wins out over death in a never-ending struggle.

How does Nephthys, Seth's third-gendered counterpart, fit into this scheme? She provides an instructive example. She, being unattracted to men, is childless, and spends all of her time with Isis. She does, however, eventually have a child, not by her husband Seth, but by Osiris. In the allegory of the Egyptian landscape, Nephthys has been said to represent the desert ground outside the reach of the Nile's flooding (see Plutarch). On rare occasion, the Nile exceeds its limits and flows out onto this desert ground, producing vegetation.
Therefore, one would not necessarily expect such a woman to be recognized as not female, or as a third gender, especially in a patriarchal culture where women's desires were not counted. But one would expect there to be at least one word for the nonprocreative man. This is reflected in the gender listing on the Middle Kingdom pottery shards of males, eunuchs, and females. The word for male includes a picture of a penis and a picture of a man kneeling. The word for eunuch includes a picture of a man kneeling, but not a picture of a penis. The word for female includes a picture of a woman kneeling, but no picture of body parts (unless the shield-like shape which designates "woman" is a picture of the female pubic region).
The pronunciation of the words on the shards is given as tai (tie), sht (sekhet) and hmt (hemet), respectively. The word for eunuch, sht, also appears in a pyramid text where it is contrasted with the word for male, tai.
There is also another common word for eunuch, which is hm. The word is similar to the word for female, but it lacks the feminine grammatical ending -t. The word hm is used with a variety of senses. The Berlin Dictionary defines it as a coward It is a very common word in tomb inscriptions which Egyptologists like to translate as "priest," because the hm's are depicted performing all kinds of sacrifices for the dead. This word for priest hm is written with a kind of upward pointing club, differently from the word for eunuch hm, but the pronunciation is exactly the same and the range of uses overlap in the meaning of servant.

There is a tomb established by two men at Sakkara near Memphis in which they are depicted holding hands, feasting together, and in their sacrificial chamber they are shown twice in very loving embraces (see Moussa, Ahmed, and Altenmüller, Hartwig, Das Grab des Nianchchnum und Chnumhotep, Old Kingdom Tombs at the Causeway of King Unas at Saqqara, Excavated by the Department of Antiquities, Archäologische Veröffentlichungen, vol. 21, Mainz Philipp von Zabern, 1977). They were both manicurists for the king Neuserre, and both referred to by the word hm (priest). The walls of the tomb are very elaborately carved with pictures and text, depicting the two men in various scenes. One of the men, Niankhkhnum is consistently placed in a typical male position with respect to the other man, Khnumhotep, who is consistently depicted in a female position (this analysis I heard from Greg Reeder, author of www.egyptology.com). There are remarkably few female figures in the tomb. Those who are depicted are either the sisters, daughters, or wives of the men. Each man had one wife. In one banquet scene, the men are depicted at either end of the table, and the wife of Niankhkhnum is depicted sitting behind him - but her image has been chiseled out of the scene and is only recognizable as an erased outline. There is a procession of females in one section of a wall, but the figures are all allegorical depictions of different crops, etc. (plates 66-67). Male, female, and other family members account for only 21 out of the 97 individuals named on the wall. Besides the two tomb owners, the other 76 named individuals are all men and are all called hm (priests). The describers of the tomb translated hm as Totenpriester or funerary priest.

Scene 16.2 (Plate 40) shows a hunting scene. In one corner a dog-like animal mounts another dog-like animal from behind. It is the only depiction of a sex act in the tomb, which raises the question of why this sex act was depicted. The copulating pair of animals doesn't make a dramatic impression, so if they were not there they would not be missed The animals themselves might be hyenas, which have long been a symbol of gender confusion, or jackals, which is the animal most often used to represent Seth.

Niankhkhnum and Khnumhotep have their names intermingled at the entrance to their tomb: Niankh-Khnum-Hotep, which means joined in life, joined in death (peace). Inside the tomb is a legal declaration authorizing the hm priests to carry out their duties and forbidding the tomb owners' respective family members to impede them (page 87). The excavators of the tomb noted that there is an extraordinary number of hm priests depicted in their tomb and an extraordinary number of them are mentioned by name (page 30). This they saw as a sign of the high social position of the tomb owners, but of course, it can also be a sign that they were personally acquainted with lots of these hm priests, as a result of the hm "priesthood" being an association of which they were prominent members. These hm priests were merely playing the spiritual role that the gender variant in many cultures play.

The conventional interpretation of these tomb owners' relationship has been that they were brothers. This is based on their depiction in the tomb within what appears to be a family posing scene (plate 30). Ten people are depicted in a line. At the front are a man and a woman with the woman embracing the man. Next follow two men, three women, and three more men. The last two men are Niankhkhnum and Khnumhotep in that order. All the persons depicted have their left hands over their hearts, except for the first woman (presumably the mother) and Khnumhotep. The latter two are affectionately touching the men in front of them - the woman has her left arm draped around her husband, and Khnumhotep is holding Niankhkhnum's right hand in his left
Te Velde, H. Seth, God of Confusion: A Study of His Role in Egyptian Mythology and Religion. Leiden: E.J. Brill, 1967. Especially chapters II and III.
Budge, E.A. Wallis. The Gods of the Egyptians, or Studies in Egyptian Mythology. Volume II. New York

2. from: http://pages.zoom.co.uk/lgs/facts.html
“In Africa, peoples among whom homosexuality is accepted include the Nandi and Meru of Kenya; the Dinka and Nuer of Sudan; the Konso and Amhara of Ethiopia; the Ottoro of Nubia; the Fanti of Ghana; the Kwayama and Ovimbundu of Angola; the Thonga of Zimbabwe; the Tanala and Bara of Madagascar; the Wolof of Senegal; the Lango, Iteso, Gisu, and Sebei of Uganda and the Zulu of South Africa.�


3. Ifa Social Commentary - Part 1
(from http://www.awostudycenter.com/Articl...l_comment1.htm)
Same Gender Relationships
I have been involved in Ifa/Orisa worship for over twenty years. During that time I have listened to an endless debate over the question of whether or not Spirit sanctions same gender relationships. I have heard Odu interpreted to support one position or another without being convinced that the quoted scripture remotely applies to the issue under discussion.
Given the lack of clear scriptural commentary I have relied on direct communication with Spirit for guidance on this question. Guidance from Spirit has come through both divination and directly from the ancestors and Orisa as spoken through the voice of mediums. Using divination and the voice of Spirit as the source of guidance in this matter as opposed to relying on personal bias and social pressure has led to a clear pattern of response from Spirit and divination. My experience as an elder providing guidance to those who are seeking honest answers to real questions of concern does not establish a universal policy on this subject. At best my experience provides information to consider. Hopefully it might shed a little light on a subject that has been plagued with prejudice, confusion, fear, hatred, shame and a sense of guilt that is inconsistent with the Ifa belief that we are all born as good and blessed people.
In hopes of providing some healing and clarity I share some of my thoughts and experiences on the subject of same gender intimate relationships. I am frequently saddened and burdened by the stories of childhood sexual abuse that are epidemic in our communities. There is no quick fix for the problems created by the denigration of children. As an elder I am very clear that the protection of children is a high priority. In Ode Remo, where I was initiated, the sexual abuse of a child is a capitol offense. Trial and punishment occurs quickly. It is an effective deterrent. I say this because in the past ten years I have noticed a significant trend within some Orisa communities across the country to sanction the sexual exploitation of children. A sexually abused child who does not have access to effective means of healing runs the risk of becoming a perpetrator of sexual abuse against children. The trend that I am seeing is a clear warning sign that as a community we have significant work to do to stop the tendency of this problem to become an inter-generational curse.
A child who has suffered sexual abuse can develop an aversion to the gender of the person who committed the abuse. In my experience the most common example is a woman who was abused by an adult male develops an aversion to men. The human need for intimacy will work its way around this aversion by seeking same gender gratification. There are two important points to consider as an elder in this situation. Clearly Ifa does not sanction relationships of any kind based on fear. However you cannot expect a person to rise above fear based on real experience until the source of that fear has been transformed in an effective way. What this means in practical terms is that the healing of the effects of the childhood sexual trauma is the first concern of the elder. In my experience once this healing has taken place the victim of childhood sexual abuse is in a position to make a healthy choice regarding sexual orientation. By making a healthy choice I mean making decisions based on feelings of attraction and not based on feelings of fear. My experience as elder dealing with these situations is this; those who are healed of sexual abuse trauma sometimes remain in same gender relationships and sometimes they change their preferences. I have seen both the oracle and Spirit sanction both choices. There is absolutely no way to effectively guide a person towards healing the effects of childhood sexual abuse if you start by making negative judgments concerning questions of sexual preference. Healing is based on trust and strong negative social judgments will negate that trust.
Americans as a culture are obsessed with the need to gossip about sexual relationships between other people. This obsession has infected the news, the political arena, and has become a source of entertainment on talk shows and "reality" based television programs. This obsession is rooted in conditioning. The conditioning is motivated by the desire to manipulate consciousness as a marketing tool. As long as you are not hurting children I have no need to know what you are doing in the bedroom. Some forms of sexual interaction between heterosexual couples are unhealthy and that will come up in divination. That is an issue of healing and guidance between elder and omo. In traditional Yoruba culture discussion about the sex life of other people is considered rude and inappropriate, it is taboo because it serves no healthy purpose.
Ifa teaches the belief in reincarnation (atunwa). Before reincarnation occurs the individual chooses a destiny. The task of Ifa is to assist those who come for divination to remember the chooses made prior to birth. Ifa is based on the idea that putting a person into alignment with their personal destiny brings that person good fortune. There is some persuasive evidence that suggests same gender attraction can be hereditary, meaning it is rooted in specific genetic configurations. It seems to me that if sexual preferences can be traced back to genetic sources we have to consider the very real possibility that those genetic manifestations of destiny are personal chooses made prior to birth.
This discussion is often countered by the comment that there are no gay couples in traditional Yoruba society. My experience is this; there is no gay life style evident in some traditional Yoruba communities, that does not mean there are no same gender intimate relationships. My experience suggests that those who are attracted to same gender relationships in traditional Yoruba communities are part of bisexual polygamous family arrangements. Yoruba culture places high value on children and it is my experience that Yoruba men and women embrace the need to procreate regardless of their sexual preference.
I have taken men to Ode Remo for initiation into Ifa because divination has indicated to me that initiation is an effective therapy for prolonging life for those who are infected with HIV. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that there was a significant health benefit for those who received Ifa to improve the condition of their immune system. Because this topic was so controversial I consulted with my elders before taking men to Ifa as a form of healing for this particular disease. The elder Awo in Nigeria are the Awoni the group of diviners who give guidance to the Oni of Ile Ifa. Within the religion of Ifa as it is practiced in Nigeria, the Awoni are the final arbitrators of disputes over interpretations of Odu. I asked members of the Awoni if there was in fact a taboo against a gay man receiving initiation into Ifa. Their answer surprised me. They said the only requirement for initiation into Ifa was a willingness to follow the guidance of Spirit through instructions from their ita and to follow the guidance of their elders.
Historically the notion that Ifa is taboo to gay men seems to have developed in Cuba as the result of social tensions and conflict related to homophobia, racism, and the unchallenged sexual exploitation of children by pedophile Catholic priests. The effect of this history is theological and social tension between the office of Ori Ate and Oluwo in some of our communities. This tension has degenerated into ridged and dogmatic positions that leave little room for informed, compassionate and potentially healing dialogue.
My point is this; taking a definitive dogmatic position on the question of sexual preference can only occur from a perspective of arrogance. It is the arrogance of assuming we can know God's will. If you believe God hates homosexuals there is no need for compassion or understanding. It is the same arrogance that supports sexism, racism, nationalism, and the insane belief that any particular group of people is somehow superior to another group of people. Ifa has no belief in "Original Sin." We are all good and blessed people looking for a better way to get a long and a better way to get through the day. Any denigration of that effort is, I believe, contrary to the Spirit of Ifa.
Ire
Awo Falokun Fatunmbi

4. http://www.blackstripe.com/archives/...ks/stolen.html
The following quotes are taken from scholars of African history:
Gays: Guardians of the Gates an interview with Malidoma Somé, M.E.N. Magazine, 1993 (Somé is a Dagara tribesman of Burkina Faso; east of Nigeria and north of Ghana):
...But at least among the Dagara people, gender has very little to do with anatomy. It is purely energetic. The whole notion of "gay" does not exist in the indigenous world. That does not mean that there are not people who feel this way that certain people feel in this culture, that has led to them being referred to as "gay"...The gay person is looked at primarily as a "gatekeeper"...Any person who is at this link between this world and the other world experiences a state of vibrational consciousness which is far higher and far different from the one that a normal person would experience. This is what makes a gay person gay...You decide that you will be a gatekeeper before you are born. So when you arrive here, you begin to vibrate in a way that Elders can detect as meaning that you are connected with a gateway somewhere...
Now, gay people have children, because they are normal people. So to then limit gay people to simple sexual orientation is really the worst harm that can be done to a person....I think this is again victimization by a Christian establishment that is looking at a gay person as a disempowered person, a person who has lost his job from birth onward, and now society just wants to fire him out of life. This is not justice...
What keeps a village together is a handful of "gays and lesbians", as they call them in the modern world. In my village, lesbians are called witches and gay men are known as gatekeepers. These are the only two secret societies. These are the only groups that will get together as a separate group and go out into the woods secretly to do whatever they do.
They come from the Otherworld, and they keep the gates to the Otherworld. Because, if the gates are shut, this is when earth, Mother earth, will shake. Because it has no more reason to be alive. It will shake itself and we will be in deep trouble. Unless they go out on their yearly symposium, the village cannot be granted another year of life...This constantly reiterated discomfort and hatred for the gay person [in the modern world] is again another indication that every year we might as well be prepared for the apocalyptic moment when the stars start to fall to earth...
The great astrologers of the Dogon are gay...Why is it that everywhere else in the world, gay people are a blessing and in the modern world they are a curse? It is self-evident. The modern world was built by Christianity. They have taken the gods out of the earth and sent them to heaven, wherever that is....
The Lesbian Spirit, "Girlfriends Magazine", July 1994 [Re: The Dagar tribe of Burkina Faso, West Africa]:
"Nothing is truly intimate outside of ritual", says Sobanfu Somé. Sexuality, including woman-to-woman sexuality, is so integrated into the spiritual life of the Dagarat that her people have no word to specify "lesbian" or even "sex"....Like many other Africans, the women of Dagara do not sleep with their men. "Women need to sleep together, to be together to empower each other...then if they meet with men, there is no imbalance."
Tribal women not only sleep and live together, they join together for group rituals. "We go to a cave or bush and do rituals to build male energy. We have a female father who gives us male energy. She looks like a male. Anything we feel or experience that we haven't dealt with is expressed. This women's group ritual balances their male/female energy. It is so we are not completely male or female."
Dagarat women believe that once you've made love with your life partner in this circle, it is extremely dangerous for her to be intimate with another woman. If you break the circle, you bring in alien energy. Your partner will die. The diviner in our village comes in and says "You murdered her "...Sobanfu also says women must look at sex as a journey." You are traveling to a place not known by you or your partner. Only your ancestors know. When two people merge, your genealogy becomes a participant in what's going on.
The Alyson Almanac Alyson Publications:
The Egyptian Pharoah Akhenaten and his lover Smenkhkare were the first historically documented male couple in history. Their homosexuality does not seem to have bothered Akhenaten's contemporaries, but his challenge to the clergy brought his downfall. The priests joined forces with the army and assassinated Akhenaten and Smenkhkare, and Tutankhamen was made Pharoah.
Out in the World by Neil Miller:
Many stories credit Africa with producing the Amazons. Beginning in the 18th century and continuing throughout the 19th century, there was an all woman army maintained by the King of Dahomey (West Africa).
There are at least 33 different cultures in Africa (From the Yoruba in Northern Nigeria and the Barenda of the Northern Transvaal, to the Kamba of East Africa) where marriages between women are recognized. Academics are quick to deny that lesbianism has any role in such arrangements despite considerable evidence to the contrary.
One study on homosexuality in Africa indicates that of 78 cultures, with little contact with Western values, 49 approved of or at least tolerated homosexuality. This may indicate that homophobia (NOT homosexuality) is a Western colonial import.
Brother to Brother, anthology edited by Essex Hemphill Some Thoughts on the Challenges Facing Black Gay Intellectuals by Dr. Ron Simmons:
For a reference, Ben Jocannan cites E. Wallis Budge's The Egyptian Book of the Dead. Budge however does not use the word sodomy. Three of the 42 Negative Confessions stated in the hieroglyphic text refer to sexual activity. Number 22: "I have not polluted or defiled myself." Ben Jocannan misinterpreted that as forbidding homosexuality. A study of the hieroglyphic reveals that the Negative Confession of "polluting and defiling oneself" actually refers to masturbation or the irregular emission of semen, NOT sodomy. There is a hieroglyphic symbol that means sodomy and it is not used ANYWHERE in the Negative Confessions.
Why should Africa's descendants base their lives and their future on the Koran or the Bible? The Koran is not an artifact of African culture. It is Arabian. And, the bible was given to us by white slavemasters. Europeans and Arabs enslaved Africans. So why should we be subservient to their books?
Lesbian Connection, May 1993:
A judge in the state of Swaziland (South Africa) has ruled that a marriage between two women is valid. According to Swazi tradition, two women can lawfully contract a marriage as long as the parents of both women consent, and the woman who pays the "bride-price"(lobola) can delegate a man to father children on her behalf. The judgment confirming the legality of this ancient practice was issued following a trial in which Thalita Mngomezulu accused a man of defrauding her of four cows. She gave evidence that the cattle had been given as lobola for the woman she wished to marry.
Inside Gay Africa "BlackOut Magazine", Fall 1986:
We can blame the white man for many things, but men have been doing this with each other for a long, long time... The Watusi still have a reputation for bisexuality in the cities of East Africa...Zande women risked execution by pleasuring each other, sometimes with phalluses fashioned from roots... In this part of Zaire, homosexuality had a mystical element to it... Bisexuality is also quite common among the Bajun tribes of east Africa.
Homosexuals are everywhere. We always have been. We always will be. When African homosexuals were in the bowels of slave ships, they were locked in the same iron chains, not pink triangle bracelets. When African slaves were lynched, they wore the same rope nooses, not knotted rainbow flags. Gaybashers shame all of their African ancestors, across oceans of time...

5. from http://www.mask.org.za/SECTIONS/Afri...a/ghana_11.htm

May 6, 2004: Accra is asleep at 10 pm on a Saturday night, but in and around the suburb of Adabraka, men are gathering at Strawberry, a well-known gay (homosexual) friendly nightspot. The men mingle discreetly, aware that if they are discovered they could face discrimination, blackmail, imprisonment and torture.
Ghana's criminal code, in sexual offences article 105, states that "whoever is guilty of unnatural carnal knowledge - (a) of any person without his consent, is guilty of first degree felony; or (b) of any person with his consent, or of any animal, is guilty of a misdemeanor." This law, a relic of repressive British sodomy laws, groups homosexuality with bestiality, assault and rape, and brings a minimum misdemeanor charge for gay activity.
The Acting Commissioner for Human Rights and Administrative Justice (CHRAJ), Mrs. Anna Bossman, said the government should look at decriminalizing homosexuality. "Engaging in these practices is not currently legal. It may be said that this is a form of discrimination. Why would you criminalize actions between two consenting adults?" she asked.
Mrs. Bossman believes that the laws concerning homosexual rights in Ghana have not progressed.
"The more advanced societies just softened their laws on homosexuality, our laws are lagging behind," she said.
According to the International Gay and Lesbian Association, some gay men are abused while in prison. In 1993, a gay Ghanaian who was repeatedly a victim of violent harassment was awarded asylum in Britain. In 1994, London's Capital Gay, a publication for homosexuals, reported that a gay man from Ghana was granted interim asylum in South Africa, because of his claim that gays in Ghana were persecuted.
More recently, on August 8, 2003, four gay men were arrested for "indecent exposure" and "unlawful carnal knowledge." According to the government newspaper, the Daily Graphic, the men were arrested while picking up a package that customs officers determined contained photos of the men in "compromising homosexual acts."
The United Nation's Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR), in its preamble, recognizes the "equal and unalienable rights of all members of the human family." Article 2 of the UDHR entitles all people to the rights and freedoms, "without distinction of any kind, such as race, color, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion."
Article 5 states that "no one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment."
"Though there are general laws guaranteeing fundamental human rights in the society, they don't protect gays," said Mrs. Bossman.
Amnesty International (AI), in Decision 7 of its 1979 International Council Meeting, recognized that "the persecution of persons for their homosexuality is a violation of their fundamental rights."
According to Mrs. Bossman, it is not constitutional for homosexuals to be discriminated against because of their sexual preferences.
"If a complaint of that nature is brought to our outfit we would definitely deal with it," she said.
"If one is thrown out of his house for being gay then it's a clear violation of the person's basic human rights," she added.
A recent AI report stated that, "Governments around the world deploy an array of repressive laws and practices to deprive their lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (people who have undergone a sex change) citizens of their dignity and to deny them their basic human rights." The report goes on to state that lesbian and gay people are routinely imprisoned, tortured to extract confessions, raped, and executed by state death squads.
Mrs. Bossman said that among Ghanaians, homosexuality is taboo, thus making the issue of decriminalization very touchy.
"Most people, religious leaders and even judges, will probably say 'no way,'" she said.
Dr. Ken Attafuah, currently Executive Secretary of the National Reconciliation Commission, is one of the few high-profile public figures who has spoken in support of gay rights. "It should not be left to gays alone to fight for gay rights because we are talking about fundamental violations of justice," Dr. Attafuah said on a radio program two years ago. "You do not have to be a child to defend the rights of children," he added.
Mrs. Bossman agrees with Dr. Attafuah. "The point is that you may not be pro-gay but it doesn't mean that they should not be protected."
One gay man who has managed to live a happy life in Ghana is 36-year-old Nana Kwame, an educator.
"I would not say I'm full gay because I still have some orientation towards women," Nana said.
Nana is bisexual and was married for almost 17 years.
He is now divorced and has three children.
Nana realized his preference for men when he was in secondary school form four.
"When I went to the university in Cape Coast, I realized that it was not me alone who was gay, but that there were many other people," Nana said.
"I have not encountered any problems with the community or the law because I have a permanent partner that I have been living with for the past three years. The problem arises when people have to go hunting for partners, " he said Nevertheless, Nana feels that he must hide his lifestyle for fear of discrimination. "When someone in Ghana gets to know you are gay, his mindset changes. He looks at you as if you were evil."
Nana also admits that he is afraid of losing his job as an educator if he were to come out in the open. "I need to hide that part of me. I have been extra careful," he said.
Nana stressed that being gay or bisexual is not a choice.
"They think we are evil, but I think it is neither here nor there. If a child is born that way, it is not the fault of the child," he said.
Nana's family does not know he is gay, except for his younger sister. "My younger sister knows and accepts it.
She supports me," he said. "People who are gay in Ghana need to be given the freedom to do what they want, free from discrimination. They have a lot of scriptures to lambast you. It takes somebody with an open mind to accept you for who you are."
Another gay man, called Prince, 27 years old, is the founder of the Center for Popular Education and Human Development (CPEHD). Prince said the group started informally in 1995 with small meetings. They officially registered last year, with the mission of improving human rights awareness, gender sensitization, and issues that affect gay men, such as STIs, STDs and AIDS.
"We started by looking at the sexual health needs of gays and lesbians in Ghana," he said. The CPEHD recently conducted a survey on the health needs of gay men in Ghana. According to Prince, the survey helped to reveal some of the misconceptions among gays in Ghana. "The main problem we are looking at is HIV/AIDS. Some people think you won't get HIV/AIDS from gay sex," he said.
Like Nana Kwame, Prince does not wish to reveal his sexual orientation. "I don't say I'm gay, even in the media. I see it like you live all your life trying to gain acceptance from society. You have to live a different life and put up a different picture," he said.
According to Prince, gay men suffer "a lot of discrimination and abuse" in Ghana. "I was ejected from my room because of the male visitors, and because I wasn't interested in women," he said. "People take advantage of the illegality and they use it to blackmail people," he added.
In a recent 32-page report concerning homosexuality and human rights abuses in different African countries, Prince relates how he was lured by a man he met to visit his store the next day. When he arrived he found that the man had left, only to return with a group of men who beat Prince and robbed him of his mobile phone and wallet. According to Prince, the police refused to pursue the matter.
Prince said gays made easy victims for theft and blackmail because they were reluctant to go to the police. "People take advantage of the illegality and they use it to blackmail people," he said.
Like Mrs. Bossman, Prince agrees that changes need to be made in the current legislation. "South Africa has a clause in their constitution which legalizes homosexual acts. The Ghanaian Foreign Minister recently said, "we need to emulate South Africa when it comes to human rights. They don't think of sexual rights as being a human right also."
"Looking at our tradition, it is something that we see as an abomination and a taboo. Ghanaians are not interested in such behavior," said Dominic Jale, a Ghanaian journalist.
According to Prince, this is the prevailing attitude amongst most Ghanaians. But he disagrees that homosexuality is alien to Ghanaian and African cultures.
"Our research shows clearly that homosexuality did not come from the West. When you go deep into the villages, where it is dark, there are men having sex with men and they have never met a white man before," he said. "If you go to Jamestown and Bukom, where there are gay men who have never been with whites, clearly this is not true," he added. Nana Kwame agrees. "What pains me, they will tell you it is a foreign culture. But me, I did not know any white men when I started in my village," he said.
Mrs. Bossman also refutes the claim that homosexuality is a Western import. "Homosexuality expresses itself in different ways in different cultures," she said. "For example, in traditional Yoruba culture a man was permitted to marry a man, although perhaps not with the intention of having sex," she added.
Prince looks forward to a time when his support group could function in public, so that he could reach more people who needed help.
"The law is against it even though we are helping people. Society needs to accept that gay life is not learned, but from when you were born," he said.
According to Mrs. Bossman, change will be difficult, but it will come. "With the world movement for gay rights, we will probably be faced with a lobbying group soon. It will be an uphill task, but not impossible. It may come much faster than we think," she said.

6. http://semgai.free.fr/doc_et_pdf/africa_A4.pdf.

(A very lengthy article too long to paste here)

7. from http://www.bidstrup.com/phobiahistory.htm

Homosexuality in Prehistoric Africa
Our knowledge of homosexuality in prehistoric African cultures is limited by the late-Middle Age European views of Africans, of homosexuality, and of course, the European reason for being in sub-Saharan Africa in the first place - the slave trade. Among the earliest references to it are some of the records of the Inquisition in Brazil. From the Denunciations of Bahia, (1591-1593) comes this thoroughly racist reference to it:
"Francisco Manicongo, a cobbler's apprentice known among the slaves as a sodomite for 'performing the duties of a female' and for 'refusing to wear the men's clothes which the master gave him.' Francisco's accuser added that in Angola and the Congo in which he had wandered much and of which he had much experience, it is customary among the pagan negros to wear a loincloth with the ends in front which leaves an opening in the rear... this custom being adopted by the sodomitic negros who serve as passive women in the abominable sin. These passives are called jimbandaa in the language of Angola and the Congo, which means passive sodomite. The accuser claimed to have seen Francisco Manicongo "wearing a loincloth such as passive sodomites wear in his land of the Congo and immediately rebuked him." (quoted by J. Treveisan, Perverts in Paradise, London, 1986. Elipses are his.)
We can see from such references, that homosexuality was present in Africa from at least the earliest of European contact, and without much doubt, from long before. It wasn't just central Africa, either. While European proprieties made such graphic description of African homosexualities uncommon in their descriptions of Africa, there are enough references to it to know that it was indeed present, and even used as a justification for considering African cultures primitive enough to justify slavery.
Among the last African cultures to be subjugated by Europeans, the Hausa peoples of northern Nigeria and the surrounding countries offer interesting examples of homosexuality among Islmaicized peoples of Africa. Conquered by the British only in 1904, they were studied extensively by British ethnographers within a decade and a half of the arrival of the British - having experienced very limited contact with Europeans in the meantime. These ethnographers included sexual practices, including homosexuality, in their survey. Thus, they give us a unique glimpse into a nearly pristine African Islamic culture.
The Hausa people have terms in their language that are used to describe homosexuals. Two terms are common, 'yan dauda, which is usually translated as "homosexual" or "transvestite" and 'dan dauda, which translates as a homosexual "wife." The 'yan dauda in Hausaland engange in stereotypical professions, much as marginalized gay men in the west often do. In Hausaland, they are often engaged in the sex trade - both as male prostitutes and as 'procurers' for female prostitutes. In the latter role, they do not behave as 'pimps' do in the west, maintaining 'stables' of female prostitutes under their subjugation, but rather simply as go-betweens, arranging, for a fee, liasons for men seeking the commercial charms of female prostitutes. In this role, they often engage as male prostitutes themselves when the opportunity arises.
Among other African tribes, homosexual behavior among premarriage adolescents is common and is not even considered to be sex, since it does not involve procreative potential. In Camaroon, for example, homosexual acts as late as age 17 are considered innocent, not being "true" sexual relations. Such youth consider themselves virgins at marriage, even though they may have considerable homosexual experience in both roles. There are many stories among the Pangwe of Camaroon of men who hate women and prefer the company of men even when offered a large brideprice, of men who court other men, etc. That these behaviors existed within this tribe prior to European contact is evidenced by the richness and number of these stories.
In Zimbabwe, a nation racked by recent homophobic pogroms instituted by its viciously homophobic dictator, Robert Mugabe, there has historically been little known about homosexual behavior among peoples present prior to European contact. Some ethnographers have dishonestly attempted to show that homosexual behavior is a recent innovation encouraged by Europeans to serve their capital interests, in housing large numbers of male Africans together in barracks to serve as labor in the mines.
The reality is that homosexuality existed in Zimbabwe long prior to European contact, just like it did anywhere else in Africa. We know this because the San people had the indiscretion to record their group anal sexual intercourse on rock paintings that date back thousands of years.
The Bantu-speaking peoples of the plateau country were more circumspect, but have admitted to ethnographers that homosexual contact did occur, and was expected of pre-marriage adolescent males.
Court documents from the colonial era from Zimbabwe and South Africa (1920 and 1917 respectively) indicate that among both the Mazoe and Ndebele peoples of Zimbabwe and South Africa respectively, a fine of one beast was levied against persons attempting to engage in sodomy by traditional rulers in pre-colonial times from both tribes. This fine equates to a misdemeanor - evidence that it was not heavily frowned upon, nor particularly uncommon.
Colonial court records also show that prosecution for male homosexuality at the onset of colonial rule amounted to 1.5 percent of criminal cases in Zimbabwe, eventually declining to near zero, while prosecutions for heterosexual crimes, such as indecent assault, rape, etc., rose from almost nothing to significant portions of the criminal dockets. It must be noted that because the 1.5 percent represented unwilling participants in the criminal process, the actual extent of homosexual behavior was certainly much greater, since only those caught in flagrante delicto, those prosecuted with amicus, or those accused by jilted lovers or others with an axe to grind, represent the criminal numbers we see in the records. The actual numbers were certainly much higher. In more than 90 percent of cases, the defendant was an African male accused of assualting another African male or boy. Cases involving Europeans were much more rare.
The notion that this is "a white-man's disease of recent origin" is made laughable by an even cursory examination of the criminal records of colonial Zimbabwe and South Africa. A close qualitative analysis of the early colonial trial transcripts shows that there was often shared property resulting from long-standing cohabitation by the defendant and his accusor. That the courts had to sort out the property details shows that these men had often considered themselves in a de facto marriage prior to their dispute.
Contrary to Mugabe's and other Afrocentrists' assertions, analysis of the colonial court cases shows that the rate of prosecution for homosexual behaviors was highest among the more indigenous peoples (Shona, 17% and Ndebele, 16%), and least among the "industrialized migrants" from elsewhere (about 3% each for Xhosa, Basotho and Zulu). Presumably the latter had simply learned better how to avoid the white man's justice.

Selected sources:

Besmer, Fremont E. Horses, Musicians, and Gods: The Hausa Possession Trance. South Hadley, Mass.: Bergin & Garvey, 1983.
Donham, Donald L. History, Power, Ideology: Central Issues in Marxism and Anthropology. New York: Cambridge University Press, 1990.
Epprecht, Mark. "The 'unsaying' of Indigenous Homosexualities in Zimbabwe." Journal of Southern African Studies 24 (1998): 631-51.
Evans-Pritchard, E. E. "Sexual Inversion among the Azande." American Anthropologist 72 (1970): 1428-34.
Falk, Kurt. "Homosexualiät bei den Eingeborenen in Südwest-Afrika." Geschlecht und Gesellschaft 13 (1925): 209-11.
Gay, Judith. "'Mummies and Babies' and Friends and Lovers in Lesotho." Journal of Homosexuality 11 (1985): 97-116.
Herskovits, Melville. Dahomey. New York: Augustine, 1937.
Murray, Stephen O., and Will Roscoe. Boy-Wives and Female Husbands: Studies of African Homosexualities. New York: St. Martin's Press, 1998.
Shepherd, Gill. "Rank, Gender and Homosexuality: Mombasa as a Key to Understanding Sexual Options." The Cultural Construction of Sexuality. Pat Caplan, ed. London: Tavistock, 1987. 240-70.
Wilson, Monica. Good Company: A Study of the Nyakyusa Age Villages. 1951. Rpt. Boston: Beacon Press, 1963.

Abraham, Keshia Nicole, Patricia McFadden, et al., Reflections on Gender Issues in Africa. New York: SAPES Books, 2002.
Bawer, Bruce, Stealing Jesus: How Fundamentalism Betrays Christianity. New York: Three Rivers Press, 1997.
Blackwood, Evelyn, "Breaking the Mirror: The Construction of Lesbianism and the Anthropological Discourse on Homosexuality," Journal of Homosexuality 11(3/4):1-17, 1985.
Boswell, John, Christianity, Social Tolerance, and Homosexuality. Chicago: University of Chicago, 1980.
Campbell, Jan, Arguing with the Phallus. Feminist, Queer and Postcolonial Theory: A Psychoanalytic Contribution. New York: St. Martin's Press, 2000.
Constantine-Simms, Delroy, ed., The Greatest Taboo : Homosexuality in Black Communities. Los Angeles : Alyson Books, 2001.
Duberman, Martin, Martha Vicinus and George Chauncey, Jr., eds., Hidden from History: Reclaiming the Gay & Lesbian Past. New York: Meridian, 1989..
Foucault, Michel, The History of Sexuality. New York: Random House, 1978.
Fox, Robin, "Human Nature and Human Rights," The National Interest Winter 2002.
Garber, Marjorie, Vested Interests: Cross-Dressing and Cultural Anxiety. New York: Routledge, 1991.
Gay, Judith, "'Mummies and Babies' and Friends and Lovers in Lesotho," Journal of Homosexuality 11(3/4):97-116, 1985.
Guattari, Felix, "Becoming-Woman," Hatred of Capitalism/A Semiotext(e) Reader, ed. Chris Kraus and Sylvere Lotringer. Los Angeles: Semiotext(e), 2001.
Herdt, Gilbert, Sambia Sexual Culture. Chicago: University of Chicago, 1999.
Money, John, Gendermaps : Social Constructionism, Feminism, and Sexosophical History. New York: Continuum, 1995.
Murray, Stephen O. and Will Roscoe, Islamic Homosexualities. New York: New York University Press, 1997.
Taylor, Timothy, The Pre-history of Sex: Four Million Years of Human Sexual Culture. New York: Bantam, 1997.
Werbner, Richard and Terence Ranger, Postcolonial Identities in Africa. Zed Books.
Weston, Kath, Long Slow Burn. Sexuality and Social Science. New York: Routledge, 1998..

[IfasehunReincarnated]

The Lies:

• Lie 1: You claimed you had Research "studies". Not a few "googled" items...none of these are legitimate studies or research....the credentials of these people is zilch. So what you meant to say was you have a few gay advocacy sites that you could refer us to.. If you had said that, I would have said "no thanks".
• Lie 2: Using big words will make people think you are informed.
• Lie 3: Pretending like you know Yoruba or Kemetic spirituality when you and I both know if I quizzed you, you'd be clueless. Don't purport your opinion as fact, just say "what i believe is". Thats all I am saying.
• Lie 4: Acting as if I personally insulted you. YOU came HERE and disagree with my comments in strong language and plenty of gusto. What you thought I was going to just lie down for you? (no pun intended ) I started this thread fully aware and prepared to protect Odu, Orisa and African custom. Just because you dont think i have a right to defend my position doesnt mean I wont.

But anywho, let's take examine each "source":

1. Egyptian Third Gender (from http://gendertree.com/Egyptian%20third%20gender.htm)
This is a homosexual advocacy site... for clearer look at Ausar (Osiris) and Auset (Isis) I suggest the Metu Neter Vol. 1 Better I recommend you attend an ACTUAL Ausar, Auset or Heru ritual and ask a priest under possession while acting as the voice of one of these Neteru if they ever had sex with the same gender. Oh let me guess? You wouldnt even know HOW to get to Heru or Ausar ritual right?

2. from: http://pages.zoom.co.uk/lgs/facts.html
this is not a source. the study is mentioned, but not identified. nor are the complete names of the researchers provided. and on top of that, this is a homosexual friendly site. lol what are you kidding me? this is a badly leaking ship. get out the paddles.

3. Ifa Social Commentary - Part 1
I have shown the Odu above to Awo Falokun directly over a year ago. He does not deny that it is incorrect or authentic. In fact he would agree that the priest that provided it is ABOVE reproach, honest and more knowledgeable than most Awos and gets her Odu directly from Africa. If you dont believe me, ask him YOURSELF. He does not claim that his position is African centered when asked directly about the matter, he simply says that "these days what goes on your bedroom should stay there." What he WONT tell you if he has ever asked IFA directly if its okay to be a practicing homosexual. Bump that YOU go to YOUR ancestors and do divination and ask them directly. I double dare you. lol i promise you that if you call seven generations to Ancestors in Africa the will NOT okay this conduct. Again, I dare you. The key word is "practicing". Anybody can be called for health reasons. Getting called to Initiation does not mean you are a perfect or perfected person. ....

4. http://www.blackstripe.com/archives/...ks/stolen.html
I have already addressed Malidome Some in other threads. I won't do it again. Just do a search. My comments related directly back to him being the only person from Burkino Faso claiming that their spiritual elders honor homosexuality as normal. This is not prepared by a researcher or historian.

5. from http://www.mask.org.za/SECTIONS/Afri...a/ghana_11.htm
This is not a source that clearly documents the history of homosexuality in Africa. It documents colonized men in modern africa testifying that there are others gays everywhere. This is not a study. I also came across this article while researching certain African governments attempts at opening up gay tourism in Africa. This is not prepared by a real researcher or historian.

6. http://semgai.free.fr/doc_et_pdf/africa_A4.pdf
I didn't bother. If its large and its a pdf file, I dont want it unless you can tell me that its actually by an historian, not a gay man w/ a website. Can u guarantee that?

7. from http://www.bidstrup.com/phobiahistory.htm
An African named Francisco Manicongo? Islamicized Hausas? None that has anything to do with traditional africa. Keep it moving. And Native Americans? lol Friend read, Seven Arrows and get back to me. Also this is not a professional researcher. This is a gay guy with a website.

[RecoveringAA]

AnUppityNeGrow...


WOW!. this is a most interesting and informative piece of commentary.

Akpe for sharing......

dang....everyday and in every way......the Creator's Spirits come to say......things are this or that ....WE must know and obey this or thata way....in the end who will pay for the this orgy of greed, lust, envy and may-ham.....which has filted down to the sh*t WE all experince today?

UppityNegrow....is there anything in all those ancient readings which suggest the final outcome of all this ish???

[AnUppityNegrow]

Here is more on the ancient story of Horus (Heru) and Seth (Set), in which the two gods have sex with one another. Regardless of how one chooses to interpret the way the ancient Egyptians perceived homosexuality, the fact remains that this story, whether it was written by divine inspiration, or by mere mortals, contains a retelling of a sexual act between two males, written thousands of years ago in Africa. The fact that the story was told regarding the beginnings of the Egyptian civilization attests to its age. The additional fact that ancient Egypt existed for nearly 3000 years, and this story was not deleted from its lengthy records of the gods, attests to its importance to the Egyptians. It also attests to the existence and knowledge of sexual relations between people of the same gender, dating back thousands of years on the continent of Africa. This alone would annihilate any claim that homosexuality was imported to Africa by Europeans during the slave trade and colonial period.

From http://epistle.us/hbarticles/ancientegypt1.html
Conflict of Horus and Seth – One famous story in ancient Egypt describes an extended conflict between the god Osiris and Seth, his rival brother, who murders Osiris and then seeks to remove Horus, Osiris’ son and heir, with his claim to be king of the gods. This narrative, usually referred to as “The Contendings of Horus and Seth,� exists in different versions and dates back to the early Middle Kingdom (2040-1674 B.C.), with origins that are probably older.5 The earliest longest version, dated c. 1160 B.C., late in 20th Dynasty in the New Kingdom,6 describes how “Seth said to Horus: ‘Come let us spend a pleasant hour at my house.’ Horus answered, ‘With pleasure, with pleasure.’ When it was evening a bed was spread for them and they lay down. During the night Seth made his penis stiff and he placed it between the loins of Horus. Horus put his hands between his loins and caught the sperm of Seth.7 Then Horus went to his mother, Isis [and said]: ‘Help me…! Come, see what Seth has done to me.’ And he opened his hand and let her see Seth’s semen. With a scream she took her weapon and cut off his hand and threw it in the water, and conjured up for him a hand to make up for it.�8 Then Isis helped Horus ejaculate and smeared his sperm over some lettuce, which was Seth’s favorite vegetable and which she then gave to him to eat. Later, when Seth boasted to the Ennead (the nine gods judging the conflict) that he had done the “work of a male [warrior]�9 on Horus, the gods “screamed aloud, and belched and spat in Horus’ face.� Wolfhardt Westendorf thinks that the Egyptians looked upon semen as poison when taken into the body in the wrong way – yet Seth did not die here. Still, the gods apparently felt that for Horus to be used like a woman sexually was so incompatible with kingship that they erupted with contempt.10 Seth’s act is usually interpreted as one of dominance and aggression, yet as Dominic Montserrat points out, the story is more complex, because here: (1) Two males, comparatively the same age (adults) and same status (gods), lie down for sexual play. (2) Both rivals are able to penetrate the other, in some way, and therefore may be looked upon as equals. (3) Horus willingly consents to have sexual relations with Seth (although not anal intercourse), who physically desires him (“sweet to his heart�) and unabashedly makes his request known.11

An earlier but shorter version, dated c. 2000 B.C.,12 from the 12th Dynasty in the Middle Kingdom and from Lahun (Kahun), describes what happened a little differently: “The divine person of Seth said to the divine person of Horus: ‘How beautiful are your buttocks, how vital! […] Stretch out your legs …’13 And the Person of Horus said: ‘Watch out; I shall tell [this]!’� Then he ran and told his mother Isis, that Seth desired to sodomize him. “And she said to him: ‘Beware! Do not approach him about it! When he mentions it to you another time, then you shall say to him: “It is too painful for me entirely, as you are heavier than me. My strength [backside] shall not support your strength [erection]…�’14 Then when he gives you his strength, place your fingers between your buttocks. … Lo, he will enjoy it exceedingly (?). [Keep] this seed which has come forth … without letting the sun see it…�15 Later, Isis threw Seth’s semen into a nearby stream, then spread some of Horus’ semen on lettuce and gave it to Seth to eat. Later, when Seth boasted to the gods that he had sexually taken Horus, the youth denied it. To settle the argument, the gods called forth the seed of both. The seed of Seth answered from the water into which Isis had thrown it, while the seed of Horus came forth from Seth’s forehead in the form of a golden disk, which was grabbed by the moon god Thoth to become his symbol.16
This story, of the family of Osiris, who was looked upon as the first human king of Egypt,17 suggests that from the earliest period for a male (god or human) to take, or be forced into, a woman’s role and be anally penetrated was looked upon as humiliating and shameful.18 Yet, at the same time, homosexual desire was known and spoken of openly; and men knew of and some engaged in homosexual play in bed, apart from the degrading act. For Horus to be penetrated was a frightening prospect; yet at the same time his semen in Seth brought benefit to the moon god. So, the signals are rather mixed. Actually Seth only fell into disfavor in the 8th century B.C., when his castration and incineration began to be celebrated in hymns, while earlier kings worshipped him as the god of storms and violence, including the Hyksos rulers in Second Intermediate Period (c.1674-1553 B.C.) and Seti and Ramses in the New Kingdom (13th century B.C.). Only much later did the valiant god become a vile demon.19

The full excerpted translation of the portion of the story dealing with the two gods having sex reads:

"Said the Ennead: "Let Horus and Seth be summoned in order that they may be judged."
Then they were brought before the Ennead. Said the Universal Lord before the Great Ennead to Horus and Seth: "Go and obey what I tell you. You should eat and drink so that we may have (some) peace. Stop quarreling so every day on end."
Then Seth told Horus: "Come, let's make holiday in my house."
Horus told him: "I'll do so, surely, I'll do so, I'll do so."
Now afterward, (at) evening time, bed was prepared for them, and they both lay down. But during the night, Seth caused his phallus to become stiff and inserted it between Horus's thighs. Then Horus placed his hands between his thighs and received Seth's semen. Horus went to tell his mother Isis: "Help me, Isis, my mother, come and see what Seth has done to me."
And he opened his hand(s) and let her see Seth's semen. She let out a loud shriek, seized the copper (knife), cut off his hand(s) that were equivalent. Then she fetched some fragrant ointment and applied it to Horus's phallus. She caused it to become stiff and inserted it into a pot, and he caused his semen to flow down into it.

Isis at morning time went carrying the semen of Horus to the garden of Seth and said to Seth's gardener: "What sort of vegetable is it that Seth eats here in your company?"
So the gardener told her: "He doesn't eat any vegetable here in my company except lettuce."
And Isis added the semen of Horus onto it. Seth returned according to his daily habit and ate the lettuce, which he regularly ate. Thereupon he became pregnant with the semen of Horus. So Seth went to tell Horus: "Come, let's go and I may contend with you in the tribunal."
Horus told him: "I'll do so, surely, I'll do so, I'll do so."

lettuce: was considered an aphrodisiac, connected to Min, god of fertility
They both went to the tribunal and stood in the presence of the Great Ennead. They were told: "Speak concerning yourselves."
Said Seth: "Let me be awarded the office of Ruler, l.p.h., for as to Horus, the one who is standing (trial), I have performed the labor of a male against him."
The Ennead let out a load cry. They spewed and spat at Horus's face. Horus laughed at them. Horus then took an oath by god as follows: "All that Seth has said is false. Let Seth's semen be summoned that we may see from where it answers, and my own be summoned that we may see from where it answers."
Then Thoth, lord of script and scribe of truth for the Ennead, put his hand on Horus's shoulder and said: "Come out, you semen of Seth."
And it answered him from the water in the interior of the marsh. Thoth put his hand on Seth's shoulder and said: "Come out, you semen of Horus."
Then it said to him: "Where shall I come from?"
Thoth said to it: "Come out from his ear."
Thereupon it said to him: "Is it from his ear that I should issue forth, seeing that I am divine seed?"
Then Thoth said to it:"Come out from the top of his head."
And it emerged as a golden solar disk upon Seth's head. Seth became exceeding furious and extended his hand(s) to seize the golden solar disk. Thoth took it away from him and placed it as a crown upon his (own) head. Then the Ennead said: "Horus is right, and Seth is wrong."

The most complete translation of the entire story that I have found online can be found here: http://nefertiti.iwebland.com/texts/horus_and_seth.htm

[RecoveringAA]

OK....more info to contemplate and mediate on...

Akpe Kaka for your swift RE~sponse!

Originally Posted by IfasehunReincarnated

The Lies:

• Lie 1: You claimed you had Research "studies". Not a few "googled" items...none of these are legitimate studies or research....the credentials of these people is zilch. So what you meant to say was you have a few gay advocacy sites that you could refer us to.. If you had said that, I would have said "no thanks".
• Lie 2: Using big words will make people think you are informed.
• Lie 3: Pretending like you know Yoruba or Kemetic spirituality when you and I both know if I quizzed you, you'd be clueless. Don't purport your opinion as fact, just say "what i believe is". Thats all I am saying.
• Lie 4: Acting as if I personally insulted you. YOU came HERE and disagree with my comments in strong language and plenty of gusto. What you thought I was going to just lie down for you? (no pun intended ) I started this thread fully aware and prepared to protect Odu, Orisa and African custom. Just because you dont think i have a right to defend my position doesnt mean I wont.

But anywho, let's take examine each "source":

1. Egyptian Third Gender (from http://gendertree.com/Egyptian%20third%20gender.htm)
This is a homosexual advocacy site... for clearer look at Ausar (Osiris) and Auset (Isis) I suggest the Metu Neter Vol. 1 Better I recommend you attend an ACTUAL Ausar, Auset or Heru ritual and ask a priest under possession while acting as the voice of one of these Neteru if they ever had sex with the same gender. Oh let me guess? You wouldnt even know HOW to get to Heru or Ausar ritual right?

2. from: http://pages.zoom.co.uk/lgs/facts.html
this is not a source. the study is mentioned, but not identified. nor are the complete names of the researchers provided. and on top of that, this is a homosexual friendly site. lol what are you kidding me? this is a badly leaking ship. get out the paddles.

3. Ifa Social Commentary - Part 1
I have shown the Odu above to Awo Falokun directly over a year ago. He does not deny that it is incorrect or authentic. In fact he would agree that the priest that provided it is ABOVE reproach, honest and more knowledgeable than most Awos and gets her Odu directly from Africa. If you dont believe me, ask him YOURSELF. He does not claim that his position is African centered when asked directly about the matter, he simply says that "these days what goes on your bedroom should stay there." What he WONT tell you if he has every asked IFA directly if its okay to be a practicing homosexual. In fact, go to YOUR ancestors and do divination and ask them directly. I double dare you. lol

4. http://www.blackstripe.com/archives/...ks/stolen.html
I have already addressed Malidome Some in other threads. I won't do it again. Just do a search. My comments related directly back to him being the only person from Burkino Faso claiming that their spiritual elders honor homosexuality as normal. This is not prepared by a researcher or historian.

5. from http://www.mask.org.za/SECTIONS/Afri...a/ghana_11.htm
This is not a source that clearly documents the history of homosexuality in Africa. It documents colonized men in modern africa testifying that there are others gays everywhere. This is not a study. I also came across this article while researching certain African governments attempts at opening up gay tourism in Africa. This is not prepared by a real researcher or historian.

6. http://semgai.free.fr/doc_et_pdf/africa_A4.pdf
I didn't bother. If its large and its a pdf file, I dont want it unless you can tell me that its actually by an historian, not a gay man w/ a website. Can u guarantee that?

7. from http://www.bidstrup.com/phobiahistory.htm
An African named Francisco Manicongo? Islamicized Hausas? None that has anything to do with traditional africa. Keep it moving. And Native Americans? lol Friend read, Seven Arrows and get back to me. Also this is not a professional researcher. This is a gay guy with a website.

[IfasehunReincarnated]

I am sure you didnt join this forum for the sole purpose of talking about homsexuality (although its the only thread you've posted to yet), I look forward to seeing you post on Political Prisoners, Police Brutality, Gender Issues, Children, Revolution etc. etc.

And of course Please join me in supporting the Assata Shakur Action Alert Campaign. www.assatashakur.org/resist.htm

A link to the Action Alert forum is here.

Eager to see your comments in areas where we can all agree - helping people.

[AnUppityNegrow]

You can keep your hatred and your animus. If you feel that you are doing some service to people of African descent by espousing hatred and division based on who people are sleeping with, you are sadly mistaken. If you think your animus will lead people to an understanding of Africa and their history, you are again mistaken. All you will succeed in doing is turning thinking people off, and further dividing the diaspora. You are entitled to your beliefs, interpretations, and opinions, as am I. Makes no difference to me, and won't change my or anybody else's mind or lifestyle. There is more to life and Africa than your opinion and this website, thank God. And perhaps when you really begin to understand that ALL of us are connected and related, you will also see that attacking people based on their color or who they love is not a form of expressing African pride and love, but instead a form of terrible harm. Remember that everything you do to others, including hate, you also do to yourself.

[IfasehunReincarnated]

Gotcha.

Please join us in supporting the Pan-Afrikan Hurricane Relief Project. The Oct. Action Alert. Your help is needed.

We can all agree on helping people right?

http://www.assatashakur.org/resist.htm
http://www.assatashakur.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=34