I got a probem with Exodus 20:4 and the 2nd Commandment.

[Vic da god]

I got a probem with Exodus 20:4 ...and the 2nd commandment. They both say the same thing.

"You shall not make for yourself any graven image, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth."

---Different Exodus 20:4 Translations---

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
"You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth.

King James Bible
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

American King James Version
You shall not make to you any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

American Standard Version
Thou shalt not make unto thee a graven image, nor any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Thou shalt not make to thyself a graven thing, nor the likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or in the earth beneath, nor of those things that are in the waters under the earth.

Darby Bible Translation
Thou shalt not make thyself any graven image, or any form of what is in the heavens above, or what is in the earth beneath, or what is in the waters under the earth:

English Revised Version
Thou shalt not make unto thee a graven image, nor the likeness of any form that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

Webster's Bible Translation
Thou shalt not make to thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

World English Bible
"You shall not make for yourselves an idol, nor any image of anything that is in the heavens above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

Young's Literal Translation
Thou dost not make to thyself a graven image, or any likeness which is in the heavens above, or which is in the earth beneath, or which is in the waters under the earth.

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welll now.... Only in 2 (Amerikkkan & Word English version) of the above translations of Exodus 20:4 does it actually speak against making an "idol".

in the remaining 8 translations, the verse accounts against "making a graven image". Additionally the Amerikkkan, and English is most likely the latest and for that matter, least respectful of the original translation.

Furthermore, In Deuteronomy, Moses makes clear that God's commandment was intended to forbid Israel from making graven images of GOd Himself:
So watch yourselves carefully, since you did not see any form on the day Yahweh spoke to you at Horeb [i.e., Mt. Sinai] from the midst of the fire; lest you act corruptly and make a graven image for yourselves in the form of any figure, the likeness of male or female, the likeness of any animal that is on the earth, the likeness of any winged bird that flies in the sky, the likeness of anything that creeps on the ground, the likeness of any fish that is in the water below the earth. (Deut. 4: 15-18, adapted from NASV)

link to other Deut. 4: 15-18 translations here: Deuteronomy 4:15 You saw no form of any kind the day the LORD spoke to you at Horeb out of the fire. Therefore watch yourselves very carefully,

---Engraven Defined---
[SIZE="2"]graven -Adj. 1. graven - cut into a desired shape; "graven images"; "sculptured representations"
sculpted, sculptured
carved, carven - made for or formed by carving (`carven' is archaic or literary); "the carved fretwork"; "an intricately carved door"; "stood as if carven from stone"
2. graven - cut or impressed into a surface; "an incised design"; "engraved invitations"
engraved, etched, inscribed, incised
carved, carven - made for or formed by carving

Considering NOW is not the stone age, rather, NOW is the paper age; People dont engrave anymore. We write, draw, and paint images, graphically design, and even make em in 3D. Is there a difference between Engraving an image on a small little tablet that fits in my pocket and painting a 20' image on my wall?

No.

Why does exodus 20:4 speak against me creating an image (whetehr engraved, painted, or drawn) of anything that exists on earth (neter/nature), heavens, or underwater?? AGAIN! In 8 of the above 10 translations, it does not speak of idol or worship.


Just because I engraved an image does not mean I worship the image. Perhaps of course the image is symbollic of an aspect of god that helps me through a certain type of tribulation.

For instance if I am undergoing stress, I may look at a picture of Heru That I made the night before and seek wisdom and guidance thru that christ aspect of God. result is I am no longer stressed. Is that a negative act??? I did not worship anything.

My answer. No.

Paint, engrave, and draw whatever u want, realising that it is not God, but rather a symbol or representative of an ASPECT of God, and nothing more. it is a visual medium/tool to be used in aiding in connecting with or understand God.

Could it be that whoever adapted or changed this commandment actually created it to prevent us from connecting from God through visual means??

My answer. YES!!!!

It is things like this that make me look beyond the bible to its origins to find the true spiritual goals hidden away within it.
(42 Negative Confessions/Principles of Ma'at)


google "THe 2nd Commandment" and find many similar arguments.