Class: Religion/Spirituality Roll Call

[Warrior Princess]

*holding Willie Lynch's School Edition Manual* "Hello, Oppressed Black Students. My name is Oppressed Black Teacher. This is the first day of class and though we are all oppressed and need to find ways to look beyond our differences in religion/spirituality, we wlll not. In fact, when I call the name of your religion or system of spiritual beliefs that most suits you, you are to report to your designated corners. Are we ready?

Oppressed Black Christian Students .... North Corner

Oppressed Black Muslim Students .... South Corner

Oppressed Black ATR Students ..... East Corner

Oppressed Black No-Particular Religion/Formal Set of Spiritual Beliefs -Having Students .... West Corner

Okay, now that we are in our groups, get very well acquainted with your group members; this is your permament corner UNLESS you change your religion/spiritual beliefs (which, in the event, you should contact me immediately so that I can update my roster and put you in the appropiate corner) OR unless the rules in the manual are changed (or perhaps maybe even your perceptions, but I won't go into that too much, because I "do" have a cirriculum to adhere to and goodness knows I cannot afford to lose my job...)

Mmkay... First assignment. Speak amongst yourselves about what should be done about our oppression, but only with those who share similar religious/spiritual beliefs, because I do not want contests over whose God/belief is better, ESPECIALLY on the first day, mmkay? Tomorrow we will break up in our groups and discuss the reasons that we as a people are so divided and the things that we believe and do that help to keep us divided. "



Seriously, we (and not just in regards to this forum, but this forum IS a microcosm) do not seem too far behind this. It is apparent that we are just not all going to hold the same religious/spiritual beliefs, but are we to continue to allow this to put ourselves (consciously or otherwise) in corners? If not, what are we going to do about it. I will start with one thing we can do about it and this is:

Not taking the fact that other people have beliefs/opinions outside of those of our own so personally.

[Kweku_Omowale]

SNIFF SNIFF, IAM IN THE EAST CORNER TEACHER SNIFF SNIFF
simulated tears( uses imagination hehe) i have question, do you think teacher do you have any relevant info teacher warrior princess,about pre islamic black afrika? why is everything is arabic scriptures? arabic writting? arabic sign? teacher,iam afro amerindian, i have to be put in diffent coooorner of my own ok hehehehe! because i practise( closely amerindian tradition from brazil and kandomble) ahaha ok teacher! would islam consider converting the indigenous peoples of the amazon teacher,since,they have their own gods and deities,oh noooo,they are pagans,lets convert dem pagans lol lol, RE - LIGIOUS IMPERIALISM will be good name for new topic on its own,teacher warrior princess btw,teacher* can i invite you for veggie dinner* lemme know, or am i allowed to get off my corner,my knees are hurting,oh shit,i displayed my hue man side teacher,now you know my weakness,daamn! lol :cheers:

[Warrior Princess]

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! @ being allowed to get out of your corner! Under NO circumstances must this occur. And I would love to discuss these things with you, but unfortunately I am not in your same corner and so we cannot discuss anything. I do have the Willie Lynch teacher edition and you would think that Superintendent Lynch would WANT ALL the oppressed black people to all get to gether and discuss topics such as religion/spirituality simply because these topics keep the oppressed black people divided, but he doesn't! I wonder why he doesn't. Is he "protecting" the oppressed black people from one another by keeping these groups individual assigned corners?

*putting forefinger on chin and entering a very pensive state*

Maybe...maybe everyone breaking up into their corners to discuss things from their religious/spiritual perspective amongst each other makes them focus more on their identities with the people in THEIR corners, creating the illusion that brings on sentiments of the people in other corners are "different" and even in some cases "less than" /"not enough", when in reality they are ALL oppressed black people with religious/spiritual beliefs of their own...

Well let's see.. The North corner is made of Black Christians.. but they ain't free. The South corner is made of Black Muslims.. but they ain't free. The East corner is made of black followers of ATR...but they ain't free. And the West corner is made of black "others"... but they ain't free. Goodness. They all have something MAJORLY in common; they all ain't free! I wonder if they know that. Maybe some of them live upstairs in Lynch's House and feel like they are different, because they have a real nice view. Maybe some of them live in Lynch's mountain cabin and feel like they in a whole 'nother place. Maybe some of them live in Lynch's field and feel like they away from all the madness. Maybe some of them live in Lynch's beachhouse (which takes so long to get to until it seems a WORLD away) and feel they are not even in that world. But goodness *two hands over face* They're still.. They're STILL!... Why they're still at the end of the day oppressed black people who really need to be, at least while they are in this school together, pooling their ideas together to work AGAINST being oppressed black people.

*abruptly comes out of pensive state due to a loud BANG*

Black Oppressed Teacher: *fumbling through Lynch School Manual* Uh... Uh.. Superintendent Lynch. Hi.

Lynch: And just what are you doing!? Do you see what is happening here!?

Black Oppressed Teacher: Oh dear.. Oh DEAR!

Lynch: They're out of their corners! Look at these nigras!! *looking at once disgusted, angry, and downright nervous* What in bloody hell have you been doing!? Where have you been!?

Black Oppressed Teacher: Why uh uh.. Superintendent Lynch, I haven't been anywhere.. I just fell into a daze for one short moment.

Lynch: DAZE! Do I PAY you to DAZE!? Do I even pay you to THINK for yourself!? What are you doing THINKING for yourself!? YOU KNOW THIS IS A TOTAL VIOLATION OF CODE!!!! But I will deal with you LATER! As for now, what are we going to do about the little nigras!? They've realized that they were in corners!! How did THAT happen!? Since they REALIZED they were in corners, they were able to COME OUT of the corners! HOW did they REALIZE they were in corners!? This VERY realization is what I , for so long, have worked so hard to see NEVER become a reality! DID YOU ENCOURAGE THOSE LITTLE NIGRAS TO COME OUT OF THEIR CORNERS!?!? DID YOU!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? WHAT am I going to DO about this nigra problem NOW!? I've had it under control for SO long. After the light skin/dark skin thing stopped working, I needed something else. I worked and I worked to come up with an updated plan, but nothing worked, because I was not working on anything that the new breed of little nigras (they are SO much more stubborn than the older stubborn nigras were, but this has its advantages, too, because they do not like to listen and feel that noone can tell them anything, EVEN if it's going to help/liberate them!) were passionate about. Well I worked and I worked and I observed those little nigras, ESPECIALLY those little revolutionary nigras. I noticed they were particularly passionate AND stubborn about their views on religion/spirituality and nearly everytime I eavesdropped on their disussions about these things, I would hear just what I wanted to hear: a buncha infighting and chaos. Well I worked and worked and decided that I could AND would use religion/spirituality; the very thing they use a tool to HELP them to HURT them. It's been working eversince, but now that they're out of their corners, I don't know what I'm going to do... *his eyes stretch as if he is trying to view the whole world* OH NO! NO, LITTLE NIGRAS! You MUSN'T.. You MUSN'T take those chains off! Now you stop it! You stop it right now! *his eyes stretch even wider* They're coming out of their chains! Oh dear, they're coming out of their chains, chanting some strange something.
Sounds like they're saying "Oo-hoo-roo." What's that mean?! *eyes widening, mouth opening even wider* Oh no! They're coming... THEY'RE COMING! What in the UNIVERSE am I going to DO!?!?

Universe: Oh that's an easy question... You're gonna stand right there and take your karma just like everybody else under the sun, Jiiiiiiive Turkey. Think it's a game?

*Lynch is surrounded*

Lynch: Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooo


======================

*Warrior Princess wakes up... and hopes that her fellow brothers and sisters, no matter their religion/spirituality, will, too.*

[Im The Truth]

I think it is important too educate Our People in general which includes the education about the goods and bad about religions that aren't Ours. But to disrespect a persons' religious belief creates an environment which makes it impossible to Organize and further Educate Our People. Organize Our People to create an Afrika Nation and to Educate Us about Ourselves (Our Cultures [the whole Diaspora] and Our collective enemies). Too many times those who are so-called "conscious" or "revolutionary" talk down to Our People about ideas and information rather than building Our People up to the point where We can understand and accept this information and these ideas.

I compare this to feeding a newborn baby steak or trying to teach a 1st grader the theories of mathematics when he/she can’t even add and subtract. Many so-called "conscious" or "revolutionary" people forget -- for lack of knowlegde, agenda, or other reasons -- that the process of education is a slow process. So trying to ram down information and ideas which require higher levels of understanding, especially about religion, is absolutely useless and it also hurts and even destroys the ability to organize.

Uhuru Sasa!
Ready For Revolution!

*holding Willie Lynch's School Edition Manual* "Hello, Oppressed Black Students. My name is Oppressed Black Teacher. This is the first day of class and though we are all oppressed and need to find ways to look beyond our differences in religion/spirituality, we wlll not. In fact, when I call the name of your religion or system of spiritual beliefs that most suits you, you are to report to your designated corners. Are we ready?

Oppressed Black Christian Students .... North Corner

Oppressed Black Muslim Students .... South Corner

Oppressed Black ATR Students ..... East Corner

Oppressed Black No-Particular Religion/Formal Set of Spiritual Beliefs -Having Students .... West Corner

Okay, now that we are in our groups, get very well acquainted with your group members; this is your permament corner UNLESS you change your religion/spiritual beliefs (which, in the event, you should contact me immediately so that I can update my roster and put you in the appropiate corner) OR unless the rules in the manual are changed (or perhaps maybe even your perceptions, but I won't go into that too much, because I "do" have a cirriculum to adhere to and goodness knows I cannot afford to lose my job...)

Mmkay... First assignment. Speak amongst yourselves about what should be done about our oppression, but only with those who share similar religious/spiritual beliefs, because I do not want contests over whose God/belief is better, ESPECIALLY on the first day, mmkay? Tomorrow we will break up in our groups and discuss the reasons that we as a people are so divided and the things that we believe and do that help to keep us divided. "



Seriously, we (and not just in regards to this forum, but this forum IS a microcosm) do not seem too far behind this. It is apparent that we are just not all going to hold the same religious/spiritual beliefs, but are we to continue to allow this to put ourselves (consciously or otherwise) in corners? If not, what are we going to do about it. I will start with one thing we can do about it and this is:

Not taking the fact that other people have beliefs/opinions outside of those of our own so personally.

[Warrior Princess]

There is no unspeakable abomination in having a problem with certain aspects of a religion or even having a problem with a WHOLE religion (though I seriously doubt that anyone knows EVERY single ASPECT about a religion/spiritual system that he/she him or herself did not create), but instead of just basically telling a bro/sis that his or her religion/spirituality 'wrong' or rubbish, why not strive to build bridges instead of walls? I mean if you feel that your SPIRITS are disagreeable, that is one thing, but if you are merely disagreeing over beliefs, that is nothing that has to be major/divisive.

It also helps for us to remind ourselves that we are ALL here as a result of the stages of our learning/unlearning/relearning. There were several steps that had to be taken for us to get to this point in our journey and more than likely, there will be several more steps/stages of learning/unlearning/relearning to go. As you mentioned the analogy of giving steak to a baby, we must keep this same analogy in our minds in regards to the fact that none of US came out walking and talking the way in which we now walk and talk. Beyond that, none of us are individually walking around with all the pieces to the big puzzle, but if we all individually have even just ONE piece of the big puzzle and come together as a collective, we can begin to put the pieces together. However, in our corners, we just hold our little pieces and that's all we see, those little pieces when there is a whole puzzle out there to be put together/seen.

In addition to this, not everyone is at the same stage of working for the people. Some, no matter what and/or how much they might not say, are longtime vets. Some, no matter, what and/or how much they might say, are very new to deeper aspects of our struggle. The older (not in terms of physical age but experience-wise) warrior might have already had to overcome/learn to deal with so much adversity within the struggle until all of certain areas of chaos are nothing new to them and do not affect them in the same way in which it might affect a newer warrior, who might have, after searching and searching for a mass of equally sincere bros/sistaz to work with considered him/herself to have found one only to see the same things he (/she) saw, which kept him (/her) from joining up with other orgs. It would be easy for the newer warrior, (i.e.) especially after freshly learning more about the anatomy of COINTELPRO to question the members' loyalty and maybe even begin to wonder if placing his loyalty with his fellow warriors (here or anywhere else) would just be like placing his water in a broken calabash. Realistically, nothing in life comes with 100% guarantee except death, BUT the whole issue of warriors being turned away is a much more serious issue than just about "having heart" or not.

However, I DO realize that this is still the spiritual forum, so let me get back on the subject. We should NOT avoid the discussion of religion/spirituality. I honestly think we SHOULD discuss, as Truth has basically said, what we perceive as the positive AND negative aspects of any religion/spirituality regardless, because if for no other reason, I feel we should embrace the importance of eating the fruit and throwing away the pit. However, what we should NOT do is be so close minded until can't nobody tell us nothing about religion/spirituality (or anything else for that) if they are saying something we do not necessarily want to hear.

If I am a black Christian, should I put my fingers in my ears, stick out my tongue and start humming when a bro/sis questions me about how certain parts of the Bible were selected and twisted to help support/maintain slavery? By the same token, should THEY cover their ears, stick out their tongues and start humming when I tell them about the aspects of Christianity that I feel have helped me as an individual or black people in terms of organizing?


If I am a black Muslim, should I get crunk and when my bro/sis questions me about the Arab conquest and the Eastern Slave Trade in regards to Islam ? Should they get crunk when I remind them about how some our people used some of teachings of Islam to demand change or how some of these teachings brought about one the most mentioned leaders of our liberation movement?

If I am a black follower of ATR, should my non ATR bro/sis catch a downright hissyfit when I ask them, in regards to our struggle, what their European gods are doing for our people and Afrika? By the same token, should I catch a Afrocentric hissyfit when my bro/sis asks me what my Afrikan gods are doing for our people and Afrika?

And so on and so on... At any rate, I am not suggesting that anyone abandon their passions/emotions. I am suggesting that we ALL have something to teach and to learn and since passion, if allowed, can get in the way of that, we should allow our objectivity to balance out our passion/emotion just like we should allow our passion/emotion to balance out our objectivity. We really do need both (passion/objectivity) to help ourselves and our people.

[IfasehunReincarnated]

I don't this forum has ever been used to say a religion is rubbish per se.

You want to know the real problem? The problem is that instead of recognizing these faiths as foreign and divisive, black people hold on tighter and decide to choose be good Christians and good Muslims over being good Afrikans. (We love being Afrikan until we have to "actually be Afrikan" then we want to say "Afrika aint all that" lol - how would we know? we never actually start acting like ourselves.) I have always said and will continue to say that Christianity and Islam make black people choose sides against one another. While a black person can practice ANY african tradition from ANY where in africa and would bump heads on "spiritual" & "social" practices once in a blue moon. The problem isnt that "we" dont get along with "them". Its that by practicing a foreign religion, the idea of "them" or "we" gets created in the first place.

FOREIGN RELIGIONS CREATE DIVISION AMONG AFRICANS ON PURPOSE.

What this forum has said about Christianity, Islam and Judiasm is:

• It HAS been used to show facts that illustrate that certain religions are contradictory to core African values (again read Cultural Unity of Africa). And we love ourselves enough to not do things that contradict our own people.
• This forum has also been used to make a PAN-AFRIKAN statement, which is "ANYTHING from Africa is better for US than the BEST thing from any other people." (note: I said us, not the planet) And guess what? This is what asians think of their own stuff, europeans think of their own stuff, native americans think of their own stuff etc. etc. Its healthy and and its life affirming, and its respectful of what the Creator GAVE YOU, not what She/He gave others.
• This forum has also been used to state that you should never practice the traditions of people that have enslaved you or continue to enslave you. Arabs are enslaving people as you read this. Somewhere a black man or woman is working in a field, mansion or factory in the Middle East for free. She or he may also being raped, both heterosexual and homosexual scenerios, as Arabs have a disgusting sex slavery trade that has existed for THOUSANDS of YEARS, with no protest from the Islam Clergy community. Christians, including Black churches were instrumental in using missionary work to make headway for white corporations to buy cheap or steal outright Afrikan resources, they also helped develop a psychological conditioning process for slave owners.
• This forum has also pushed the statment that you cannot simply say a religion is "from Africa", as this kind of logic would mean that Greek spirituality should also be acknowledged by pan-Africans because the greeks were influenced by us. I know we arent about to start invoking Zeus in the hood are we? No black people in Afrika called themself a Jew, Muslim or Christian before meeting these people. These terms are alien to us. We practiced spiritual disclipines that these people used to mis-create these religions. This is not roots. Its theft/copying. Its THEIR legacy. Not ours.

These truths dont change become they upset some people. But for my part, I only bring them up when others address it. When we are out and about we should try to NOT pick fights or disrespect people by cornering them on their beliefs. In return, I expect that no more Watch Towers, no more "You need Allah" speechs and no more door knocking and walking up to my car. I need my Fifty feet@!! lol But this kind of thing is the essence of these faiths. Always putting their message on blast. We only post here, but this is a pan-african space. We are actually supposed to be "preaching to the choir". Anyone here should already be adopting or willing to adopt pan-afrikan politics AND spirituality. We are about revolution not slavery around here.