Sundiata Answer #3

[nattyreb]

Sister Dreaded Bliss: i would lilke to hear Elder Acoli's thoughts on integration and what he feels it has done both positive and negative for our people.....

Sundiata: Well there's integration - and there's equality, desegration, anti-discrimination, etc. Black people were/are struggling for "equality," (Black equality, if you will) which is a human right, a universal right for Black people to be treated equal to all other people on earth. In fact, we were/are struggling for the right of all people to be treated equally. White racists, White liberals and Bourgeoise Blacks called our struggle for "Black equality" a struggle for "integration" to put the focus on privileged Whites instead of oppressed Blacks and others of color. White racists used "integration" as a buzz word to spread hostility against Blacks by implying that our main goal was to integrate, mix and "miscegenate" with Whites. White Liberals called our struggle "integration" out of their paternalistic need to deem which Blacks were/are acceptable for mixing and associating with Whites. The Black bourgeoise accepted perpetuated the term "integration" because their main goal actually was/is to mix with and be accepted by Whites as equals, which is there definition of equality.

Some positive things "integration" (or rather, our struggle against segregation/discrimination and for equality) did is that it got rid of legal segregation and much of the open discrimination against Blacks, others of color and even oppressed Whites in public and many private facilities: buses, trains, hotels, restaurants, recreation facilities, hospitals, schools, universities, workplaces, housings, voting booths/politics etc; so that there are many more opportunities open to Blacks and others oppressed than previously.

Obviously people of color still don't have full equality in this country and i doubt we ever will as long as the u.s. remains a capitalist society. Capitalism was built on private property and racial and class exploitation.They are part of its foundation and can't be rooted out unless capitalism itself is destroyed.

Some negative things "integration" did was that it stunted, corroded and destroyed many of the Black institutions, businesses and facilities that previously existed in our community. It closed many Black High Schools, demoted Black school administrators to regular teachers or retired or fired them and sprinkled Black High School students among the White High Schools. Integration saw Blacks flock to patronize White businesses; Black businesses couldn't compete, didn't grow and closed up shop or remained 4th rate enterprises. Integration saw Blacks flock to White suburbs, Whites moved out and are now flocking back to the cities thru gentrification projects that buy abandoned buildings etc in Black communities. The gov't used "integration and beyond" to increase the Black middle class and create the beginning of a true Black Bourgeoise class. There's also been a sizeable increase in the Black underclass who are suffering from poverty and racism but are getting little (or not enough) help from the Black upper classes and this has eroded a lot of the Black unity that was present prior to "integration." And last "integration" has caused some Blacks (and many Whites) to think we are free and no longer need Black unity and struggle.

As for Sis Dreaded Bliss being born in the '70s and not recalling all of the Black unity that folks say existed then; well, i find that many older people, or those who were there at the time, tend to exaggerate a little when they reminisce about the good ole days or the good things during their generation or times. Often the exaggerations are basically true but just magnified somewhat to stress a point, boost their own ego or to show what people should be doing now. But even considering the exaggerations, it's clear that more Black unity and struggle existed in the past (especially during the Civil Rights, Black Power and Black Liberation era of the mid-'50s, '60s and early '70s) than exist now. i think it was because we knew as a people that we were all in it together, our backs were to the wall and we had nowhere to go but forward or remain slaves.

There's no doubt that "integration" has increased the Black middle/upper classes, made some Blacks prosperous and made others feel they are free; yet there are still masses of poor underclass Blacks among us such that an overall effect of integration is that it's increased the class divisions among us. So what many see as a decrease in Black unity is really the increase in class divisions (both actual and ideological) among us: the Black upper classes separating from (some say "abandoning") the Black underclasses. It's probably the first sign that the Black struggle will be forced to move more toward class struggle.

Struggle, Sundiata

[XXPANTHAXX]

The wisdom Baba Sundiata dropped in this response is priceless, asante sana for it

[Majadi]

I just read his response while at work here in Corporate Amerikkka, I see first had what he is referencing as this feeling that some of us who think we have "made it" have! It is an unstable arrogance! They feel that Amerikkka loves them all of a sudden! This analysis was so astute I might save these posts on my hard drive and use them as reference points in writing for the future! Damn! This is Afrikan genius at its best!

[nattyreb]

i agree that Bro. Sundiata brought out some real important points, i re-read it just to make sure i took it all in. Believe it or not, he was actually concerned that he may have written too much!

[Majadi]

Tell the Baba he could never write too much!!! I am intoxicated on the wisdom of our Soldier/Elders!

[nattyreb]

When y'all get the chance, please elaborate a little bit more on your opinions. i know you did so last time and he didn't give feedblack on that, but don't let that discourage you from continuing to offer it, in fact i don't know that he won't give a 2nd response, i just don't want to nag him about it. i want to continue to be as encouraging as possible to keep him involved in this activity, he is doing other things and i want us to be able to communicate with him as regularly as he can. So please share more, everyone who reads these words, whether you've posted b4 on this thread or not!

Also, when "asking" questions, please flesh them out as much as possible, Sis. Dreaded Bliss' question is a good example, IMO it gives him a lot of different things to consider when responding, various points to jump-off of rather than something vague where he may not know if he needs to start from scratch w/you or exactly what observations bring you to the question, i hope that makes sense(?). My impression is that you get what you give, altho he may prove me wrong! Asante sana y'all for bearing with me and for your participation!

[DreadedBliss]

Originally Posted by nattyreb

i agree that Bro. Sundiata brought out some real important points, i re-read it just to make sure i took it all in. Believe it or not, he was actually concerned that he may have written too much!

Absolutely! And no, definitely not too much! Yes, I will have to meditate on this, re-read it and then come back with some thoughts. I love how Elder Sundiata broke this down.

[DreadedBliss]

So I've been thinking about the Elder's answer and just working it over in my mind. I'm just thinking of the term "integration" now in a different light.

The fact that so many of us think that we are free b/c of "integration" is so spot on. People really do think that things are so different! I still can't quite wrap my mind around how this mindset is so persistent even though I now recognize that indeed it happened to me!

I see school-aged young Brothers and Sisters and just go "Wow, I mean, wow" 'cause I see the cycles over and over.

Getting rid of the legal segregation made the oppressor sneakier, some without even conciously realizing it. It's deep.

ETA: I really want to thank Elder Acoli for taking the time to answer this question. He is much loved and much appreciated each and everyday.