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    1. #1
      Mekahineyho is offline Premium Member

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      Masculinity rites of the Sambia Tribe


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      Greetings Brothers - Sisters

      I found this to be a very unusual read on the rites for masculinity in the Sambia Tribe of New Guinea.

      I'm all for the my great Afrikan heritage but this was a bit perplexing for me. Please discuss for knowledge.

      The Sambia Tribe

      PRD - the Sambia tribe (New Guinea)

    2. #2
      DarkManJah's Avatar
      DarkManJah is offline Warrior

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      Quote Originally Posted by Mekahineyho View Post
      Greetings Brothers - Sisters

      I found this to be a very unusual read on the rites for masculinity in the Sambia Tribe of New Guinea.

      I'm all for the my great Afrikan heritage but this was a bit perplexing for me. Please discuss for knowledge.

      The Sambia Tribe

      PRD - the Sambia tribe (New Guinea)
      What the masculinization rites of this particular tribe tells us is that not all cultures on the planet function according to white proclamations about what's unnatural and what's not, given too many of us do embrace those proclamations still, no doubt thanks to our being kidnapped and forced to look at ourselves thru THEIR eyes. i keep tellin us: You can't live completely outside culture. The author's own cultural bias comes thru with the use of variatiions of the term 'homosexual,' which, given its obviously turn-off meaning, prevents a reader from genuinely appreciating another culture's male initiation rites. i wonder, though, what is the cultural term or frame of thinking THEY use descriptively, and i bet it DOES NOT have a negative connatation. My own sexuality aside, i was not grossed out by the accounts mostly because i simply can't relate culturally, since we've been socialized to believe that a male passing on his semen orally to another male is hardly the road to a proper manhood, but just the opposite. i overstand it simply as: THAT'S JUST HOW THEY DO SHYT. (i wouldn't be surprise if there were a few Afrikan cultures of the past/present perhaps, who had similar or slightly similar rites.) And it would be eurocentric of me, a brother who claims Pan-Africanism as my frame of reference, to conclude that what they do to them boys to initiate them into a Warrior Manhood is wack and that the perspective they have on how women emasculate/feminize males is... -- well, hmmm, i got to be honest because i've seen too, too many female teachers flirtatiously armlock handsome middle/highschool male students and call them cute or pretty, which does nothing, i think, to put them in the mindset of Warriorhood... Look, if any of us brothers were part of that tribe, we'd gladly go thru the ritual without apprehension (well, maybe a little apprehension since i am not certain i would stick around while a focused ElderMan comes towards me with a long, dirty stick poised to jam up my nostril to draw a river of blood).

      Jahi
      i freed 100's of slaves; i would've freed 100s more had they known they were slaves . -- Harriet Tubman

    3. #3
      Mekahineyho is offline Premium Member

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      Brother Jahi,

      You seem confused young man and I do not understand your defense. Some things with Afrikan culture cannot be perfect. No one thing in life is perfect. The intent of my initial post is to discuss views on how this practice could of come to be in existance....NOT a defense of the practice itself . I'm fairly sure after examining this rite more in my own time that having children SUCK YOUR PENIS is morally wrong.

      This would not be an eurocentric view but a humancentric view that I hope the rest of humanity shares with me.

      I love my people but this is not moral to defend my friend.

      -Mekah

    4. #4
      DarkManJah's Avatar
      DarkManJah is offline Warrior

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      Quote Originally Posted by Mekahineyho View Post
      Brother Jahi,

      You seem confused young man and I do not understand your defense. Some things with Afrikan culture cannot be perfect. No one thing in life is perfect. The intent of my initial post is to discuss views on how this practice could of come to be in existance....NOT a defense of the practice itself . I'm fairly sure after examining this rite more in my own time that having children SUCK YOUR PENIS is morally wrong.

      This would not be an eurocentric view but a humancentric view that I hope the rest of humanity shares with me.

      I love my people but this is not moral to defend my friend.

      -Mekah
      Actually, it wasn't a defense in the sense you assume, Mekahineyho, though it probably appears to be. My mistake. It was a defense in the sense that i was fearing that we 3rdworldfolks (i.e. westernized)will look at this 1stworld (non-western) cultural practice with a 3rdworld lens, seeing it primarily and wrongfully in the context of sex/sexuality (according to the article, there is nothing mentioned about anticipatory sexual arousal by the initiates, only the men who of course have to become anticipatorially aroused in order to deliver their sperm for the sake of creating men out of boys. Hmmm, upon a third reading, it was however pointed out that there is an 'erotic attraction' between some of the men and boys, but i still would be catious in using the western term 'homosexual activity' to describe this phenomenon. Anyway, this cultural practice instead has only to do with masculinity (the boys are eventually declared Men, take wives, then have children. Sounds pretty heterosexual to me, Mekah.) . My mistake earlier was to even mention my sexual orientation, which implied i wrongfully (and unwittingly!) was viewing this practice , well, kinda of sexually (again, there goes that damn nagging 3rdworld frame of reference i've been trying to abolish from my thinking). i am not an anthropologist, nor do i desire to be one, given its colonial origins and therefore its menacing use against our people; however, i will insist that the Simbia practice of providing their young initiates with a grown man's semen is neither 'moral' (to use this term, Mekah, is eurocentric, as whitefolk applied the same negative value-statement about our many cutural practices back in the day. Besides, you should not look at the practice 'in my own time' -- as a westernized Afrikan-- because you are bound to be disgusted). But nor is it immoral. From a 1stworld perspective (that is, not influenced by a society that sexualizes everything) it does not seem inappropriate as a cultural practice, being that -- now, just follow my thinking on this, bruh-- being that semen contains sperm, which culturally and biologically marks one as biologically and culturally male, which is universally acknowledged, at least as far as i know. Let me ask you: would the practice be more inviting if the initiates were instead spoon fed the semen, given its great cultural importance in the ritual?
      Your argument that your absolutedisgust is not eurocentric but humancentric is as limp as a sagging penis, bruh. How so? Because that statement's underlying assumption is that ALL of humankind thinks like white folks in terms of:
      1. how manhood is bestowed upon the up and coming youth of a society and, more importantly,
      2. how male-to-male sexual (i use this term very, very catiously) contact is perceived globally, because apparently with the Simbias it is a road down which young boys must travel if they are to become Men.

      Ev'body got dey own bag, ya dig (i been reading a lot of edwins posts, lol). Hell, if you wanna call something morally wrong or disgusting, let's talk about the fact that, while Palestinian men are teaching their boys how to aim and shoot AK's towards Israel, too many Black men on Saturday mornings are teaching Black boys how to shoot hoops towards the NBA. Tell me what group of men have a better idea of what type of manhood the boys should aspire to, given the oppressive state of their peeple? Because both cultural people are under occupation, it is morally wrong, within the context of struggle, not to teach personal and collective resistance as a socio-political necessity to the up and coming.
      Again, i believe that had the author not biased the account by using the socially inflamed phrase 'homosexual contact' (or something to that effect), a reader would have been forced to come out of his/her own western biases to see the practice for what it is: a particularistic cultural phenomenon that apparently has sustained the Simbia for centuries, by making men out of boys WITH the apparent approval of the females (the article never said the females abhored the practice), who i would wager had rather have their boys challenged into a Warrior-masculinity that protects the cultural integrity of their kind from outside influence (that is, white sadistic meddling and alteration).
      What i found interesting is how females in general and mothers in particular are characterized with regards to the negative impact they are believed to have on their male offspring, feminizing them, to be exact. Isn't it particularly interesting, from a 3rdworld point-of-view, that the initiation rite of initiates 'eating the penis' is what masculinizes them? That a mother would seek, in the absence of her husband, sex with her male child, is also another interesting phenomenon, to say the least. What a society, mahn!
      Look, all this reinforces the reality that human societies are as diverse as leaves on a tree, Mekah. i hope the Simbians maintain their cultural practice of bestowing manhood on their boys, and they will as long as them christian fundamentalist don't start shipping bibles there with the same intent they ship bibles to the Mothersland.



      Jahi
      i freed 100's of slaves; i would've freed 100s more had they known they were slaves . -- Harriet Tubman

    5. #5
      sozaboy's Avatar
      sozaboy is offline Warrior

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      New Guinea isnt africa its on the same meridian as japan
      and therefore maybe it isnt the perfect example to talk about african heritage
      it seems to be a good example for dmj to elaborate on his gay agenda tho

      none the less i agree that it is unproductive to mystify and romanticise african culture just as it is to demonize european culture. africa has learned a lot from the surrounding cultures and vice versa would be stupid to ignore this

      cultural relativism is scum for people who dont have the balls to classify things
      some things are disgusting this being one of them
      that easy

      and if you want to know why certain people have developed this way and others that way the answer is geography Jared Diamond is stressing this point
      [nomedia]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgnmT-Y_rGQ[/nomedia]

    6. #6
      Pragmatic's Avatar
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      Resentments


      I had to "cum" out of mind, from being raped in the "Upper room";

      Jesus wasn't there...The shit hurt soo bad you would of thought I had a extra womb...

      Somebody got to come up short, and it ain't goin' be me;

      Stuck in my thoughts...seeing my mom and pops fucking watching Gozilla on the big screen...oooss;

      My feelings ain't facts, but resentments keep me motivated...Getting screwed in a spoon by my uncle, yeah these feelings make my mind buckle, using mantras; them is prayers on the freeway smoking dosha, and newports, screaming in circles; this a bubble, always inflated, fuck you.

      Muthafucka, this ain't a invitation. His sex was terrible, even horrible, uninvited and patience;

      So I'm like knive handles and plugger sticks and shit to fuck my brains out and seperate my innocents; finding nirvana as a hostage to the illusion in the gay state.

      But this my mind state. Reassuring, was my illusion until I heard my mind break.

      Keep it real; Shit I kept it fake, until I faced his ass and woke him up on the real tip, to get my mind wake.



      Peace be upon you

    7. #7
      DarkManJah's Avatar
      DarkManJah is offline Warrior

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      Quote Originally Posted by sozaboy View Post
      New Guinea isnt africa its on the same meridian as japan
      and therefore maybe it isnt the perfect example to talk about african heritage
      it seems to be a good example for dmj to elaborate on his gay agenda tho

      none the less i agree that it is unproductive to mystify and romanticise african culture just as it is to demonize european culture. africa has learned a lot from the surrounding cultures and vice versa would be stupid to ignore this

      cultural relativism is scum for people who dont have the balls to classify things
      some things are disgusting this being one of them
      that easy

      and if you want to know why certain people have developed this way and others that way the answer is geography Jared Diamond is stressing this point
      YouTube - Guns, Germs and Steel Part 1 of 18
      Sozaboy, everyone, i guess, is entitled to their misperceptions (yours being that i have a 'gay agenda'). i honestly believe though that most Warriors who have read my post on the subjectmatter (specifically arguing how within the context of domination, the gender of ones sleeping companion is irrelevant, that the focus should be on why kats who mate with females feel that is their sole indication of their manhood instead of, you know, something like resisting being dominated and oppressed for, you know, over 2000 seasons) privately are in agreement with my position, but because, even among the self-defined enlightened, it is culturally unpopular to publicly concur for risk of losing their membership in the proud fraternity of a narrowly defined Black masculinity, i'll just have to go at it alone. Anyway, you dogg cultural relativism, then implied that you welcome it the moment you stated that we shouldn't demomize white culture (though you demonized this particular Simbia initiation rite by calling it 'disgusting') just as they shouldn't demonize ours, obviously because each society develops cultural practices meaningful to their particular existence, not others. Incidentally, thanks for the jared links. i will check them out very soon...

      Pragmatic, i honestly overstand your harsh perception given your profoundly unfortunate experience of being sexually violated during your youth. In the past i have tried to persuade you to reconsider that perception, and i deeply apologize for such an effort, as there is absolutely nothing that i can say or should say to get you to turn the corner. Personally, it was with considerable effort that i, after having had a similar experience at the age of 13 while coming home from soccer practice one dark evening, was able to get through the experience, though even today i still feel uncomfortable being out a nite and have a mild fear, still, of bearded Black men taller than my 5ft. 8 1/2in. frame looking at me funny... Oh, the hood kan be so fuk'd up, mahn.
      Finally, Mekah my brother, all i can say is that i was not defending a particular initiation rite; i was defending Simbian cultural reality as a right to be whatever it is without being demonized by us outsiders who i am certain have cultural practices the Simbia would ponder critically, while going about their business, as we should, leaving the dismissive language to those absent (or momentarily absent) of respect for the variety of global cultures.


      Jahi

      i freed 100's of slaves; i would've freed 100s more had they known they were slaves . -- Harriet Tubman

    8. #8
      sozaboy's Avatar
      sozaboy is offline Warrior

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      if you think the reason nobody agrees with you is cause people scared to loose their online masculinity you truly must be a master of wishful thinking but whatever everybody is entitled to his own opinion dont mean i respect that but thats how it is i dont feel like discussing shit

      all i got to say is that there always three groups of people the people who have past the people who are now and the people who are jet to come and the people who are now represent the smallest group of them all
      if you say its irrelevant who ones sleeping companion is you not only disrespect the people who have past already but also and most of all the people who will come after us and if you fail to realize this and the fact that this is the biggest group of all you truly must be a fool

    9. #9
      DarkManJah's Avatar
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      Huh?


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      Quote Originally Posted by sozaboy View Post
      if you think the reason nobody agrees with you is cause people scared to loose their online masculinity you truly must be a master of wishful thinking but whatever everybody is entitled to his own opinion dont mean i respect that but thats how it is i dont feel like discussing shit

      all i got to say is that there always three groups of people the people who have past the people who are now and the people who are jet to come and the people who are now represent the smallest group of them all
      if you say its irrelevant who ones sleeping companion is you not only disrespect the people who have past already but also and most of all the people who will come after us and if you fail to realize this and the fact that this is the biggest group of all you truly must be a fool
      Sozaboy, with regards to the subjectmatter under discussion, you and others are not expressing your 'own opinion'. Instead, what is being expressed is a blind eye to a reality (e.g. that 2 dudes kissing on the back porch is NOT GENOCIDAL, as chances are 1 of them has reproduced himself, given the experiential evidence i've posted ad naseum) we've been discouraged from seeing or admitting by years of indoctrination and misinformation to the contrary from outside sources, primarily a society, founded on deceptions, with a twisted sense of masculinity, with its laughably outrageous assumptions, that it instills in us effortlessly by indoctrinating into it's fictional belief system every male born in it, regasrdless of ancestral origins. i was once a victim, a self-hating kisser of dudes who wanted insstead to be down with my bois by bragging about what hood Sistah i had under the porch the other nite. You and others still are. Therefore, what you have expressed about sexual orientation is not a personal opinion but a cultural worldview you must maintain to be accepted into this society's male fraternity. i've always argued in the classroom, the moment a student angrily refused to hear me out, on any unfamiliar subject, by saying, "Well, Mr. Kimkathi, you have your opinion, i got mine," that this defense (its MY opinion!) is used to permanently excuse them from thinking against the cultural grain, that is, nobody wants to feel alientated and ostracized from the collective. That you don't 'feel like discussing shit' is a common reaction from those who use the 'opinion' defense against seeing and dealing with certain inescapable realities (e.g. that demonizing 2 kissing dudes negatively and ironically impacts heterosexual relationships: too many (NOT ALL, but too many nonetheless) emotionally/finacially/socially non-commital brothers casually having babies from whom they may distance themselves to conceal and/or throw off suspicion or desire to kiss another dude).

      In your second paragraph you have attributed to me an idea that is not mine. What i actually said and have said ad naseum is that, WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF BEING DOMINATED AND OPPRESSED, the gender of ones sleeping partner is irrelevant, as the oppressor does not fear a a sexually active brother, but a POLITICALLY ACTIVE brother. When we "go to battle", it is advisable not to be holding our penis, but an AK. The current definition of Afrikan masculinity allows for too many brothers to ignore/deny/refuse the reality We our being dominated and oppressed. However, once Afrikan masculinity is REDEFINED POLITICALLY, THIS AVOIDANCE AND DENIAL WILL BE OF THE PAST.

      Now, i know you (as well as other Warriors on this webby) can think critically and analyze shyt very well (much better than i EVER could) because all your (and theirs) post distinctively and admirably say so. Honestly, i am really out of my league when on this webby, but i'm a typical hard-headed and shameless Aries, lol. Anyway, so please apply those skills to what i've just written, Sozaboy, because this really ain't pyramid-building science. It is a practical and sober analysis of what ails too many Afrikan males in this society. And until We, as a dominatd race for 2000 seasons, redefine Afrikan manhood in political terms, We gonna continue to our downward spiral into the Beast's belly, unable to ever return to even a shadow of our former selves. Peace.

      Jahi
      i freed 100's of slaves; i would've freed 100s more had they known they were slaves . -- Harriet Tubman


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