Calling all practitioners of Afreekan spirituality...this Sistah needs some advice!! - Assata Shakur Speaks - Hands Off Assata - Let's Get Free - Revolutionary - Pan-Africanism - Black On Purpose - Liberation

Kentake · #1 (**permalink**) 11-08-2005

Hotep family!,
I have a serious question to ask the bros. and sistahs on this site who are active practitioners of Afreekan spirituality

(or are atleast aware of the spiritual systems of the faith(s) that are based in the diaspora and the continent 2), what do you all think of Afreekans born in the diaspora (haitians,trinidadians,cubans,brazilians etc.etc.) who practice vodun, candomble,santeria and DO NOT consider themselves Afreekans or have no love or awareness of their Afreekan history or existence?? i know of many practitioners of Afreekan spirituality (based in the diaspora context however) who are open about their belief system and practices but who abhor being called Afreekan!

some of them even scorn the thought of being called an Afreekan desendant!!

i find this very very bizarre, because all of the orishas/lwas/obosom that are called upon and venerated are without a doubt Afreekan in origin!

I had (past tense!) a close friend from trinidad who was deeply involved in the Shango Baptist faith and many of the members of the comm. were very adamant about denying &/or insulting their Afreekan ancestors and the contributions they made to shaping civilization in general! many of the members of this comm. found it odd and wierd that i considered myself an Afree-kan of the diaspora and they even told my x-friend that they thought something was wrong with me....to make a VERY LONG story short...we are no longer friends because she herself made many many insulting remarks towards me concerning my devotion to pan-afreekanism and nation-building, she would so often say to me "well you are not afreekan yunno? and they do not like us anyway so WHY ARE YOU TRYING TO BE LIKE THEM?? " whenever i would go out and proudly wear my afree-kan attire she would say "why are you dressing like an afreekan? you are a jamaican! are you not proud of being a jamaican?" so PUSH CAME TO SHOVE and i was FORCED to cut her out of my life....FOR THE BETTER!! NOW I NO LONGER HAVE TO HEAR THAT NONSENSE ANYMORE!! this is the same sistah that would have "prayers" at her house and call on the orishas for guidance and protection, the same one who says i am trying to be Afreekan? i just don't get it!!??

Then to continue....there is a mystical store here in Montreal owned by a trinidadian, he is also Shango Baptist and he sells candles, floorwashes, oils, herbs etc.he also cringes whenever he hears me discuss our Afreekan inheritance and even though he never says it i can see in his face that he is confused when he sees me in my West-Afreekan attire, he knows that i changed my name to Kentake (when i went to Ghana) and he has expressed to me in the past that he finds it odd that i would want to change my name...basically he also shares no bond with the Motherland even though he claims to be a practitioner of a faith which is based in the West-Afreekan Yoruba/Ewe/Fon tradition! i just don't get it? DO YOU??

To add to everything...the spiritual family to which i belong (Vodun/Haiti) also find that my love for my Afree-kan inheritance is somehow based in my own hallucinations!! they practice Vodun with the thought that it is strictly haitian in origin, i really do not see that they recognize it as an Afreekan spiritual system. i also have the unfortunate experience with some of the members of this spiritual comm. that i do not fit in due to the fact that i am not haitian, do not get me wrong they do not mis-treat me but i do feel odd some times due to the reality that i am treated differently as a non-haitian, that is A FACT!! i have told them on occasion that even though we derive from different caribbean nations we all OBVIOUSLY share the same Afreekan origins,

but it seems to me that their Afreekan inheritance is not important or valid to their existence, they are haitians first and foremost and Mama Afreeka is of much less importance than Mama Haiti, so can someone tell me WHY? DO THE VERY AFREE-KAN PPL WHO WERE ABLE TO PRESERVE THESE ANCIENT RITES AND TRADITIONS? WHY ARE THEY THE SAME ONES WHO DENY AND DOWNGRADE THEIR ANCESTRAL BOND WITH THEIR TRUE EXISTENCE? MAMA AFREEKA?

I would highly appreciate responses from those who are active practitioners of any Afreekan spiritual systems or those who are much aware of these systems(whether based in the continent or diaspora) since WE can better understand and actualize the reasons and CONSEQUENCES of this strange and bizarre type of mental slavery...it truly baffles me because i feel that the black ppl who are involved in these faiths SHOULD SURELY KNOW BETTER! i mean i do know of the effects of slavery and colonization

but i would like to hear from those who have more experience and know-how than i do. i await ur replies!! i am particularly interested in hearing what Elder/bro. Ifasehun and bro.Kwame have to say about this!

ASASE YE DURU=MAMA EARTH IS HEAVY!!!!

SANKOFA!,

Kentake.

Jahness · #2 (**permalink**) 11-08-2005

Greetings Sister kentake!

You don't need advice you need to stop and acknowledge that these people do not associate themselves with Afrika for whatever reason. Unless you plan to return and interview all of them asking them to answer the question you want me to speculate about then it really serves no purpose.

These people can only speak for themselves. No one can interpret why the colonial mentality of these people are against or do not feel any connection to Afrika key word being colonial.

Another thing send some names and addresses of some of these people, or businesses and i will personally ask them the questions to help you get the answer if you so desire to further your research.

Living in a fantasy world is only good for Anancy cuz they have a story to tell. It is not good for Afrikans. All of us has to speak and tell the truth as we go about our daily business of living or existing, the choice is up to the person.

If we make up stories to make ourselves feel good or to also disassociate ourselves from the motherland or our Afrikan people then the shame is on us and no one else. No matter what people practice, especially Afrikan Traditional Sacred Siciences, that does not mean they are getting it right or doing things the correct way. They may call it shango baptist, Voodoo, Santeria, Yoruba orisha worship, Cadomble, Lucumi, Spiritual baptists etc. if they are disconnected from the source which is their Ancestors then something is missing.

I would say to you, do not waste your time and blessed energy trying to figure out why these people do what they do. Use you energy to find out more about and learn your Afrikan sacred sciences traditions. Re-Build you and your Afrikan connection first, enough time has been wasted doing otherwise by all of us.

Afrikan Traditional Sacred sciences are not about me, you or anyone else it is about connecting with your source and that is Afrika and our Ancestors. We all have to take spiritual responsibility for what we teach, practice and most of all speak about. Plenty people know things, but having the wisdom, knowledge and understanding about these things is a totally different matter.

Peace & Blessings!

Im The Truth · #3 (**permalink**) 11-08-2005

The only thing I can say to this is colonialism. This is a common fact and well-known that too many of Our People in the Caribbean countries put there (colonial) country (arrogantly) above the people of Africa and the Diaspora. I'm not sure what cause this history specifically but I'm sure the willie lynch letter was in effect on the division (specifically between countries) of Our People in the Caribbean.

Dr. J suggested a book by Eric Williams about the Caribbean. Maybe this book talks about it. Or maybe so of Our Caribbean brothers and sister can give some insight to this.

IfasehunReincarnated · #4 (**permalink**) 11-10-2005

There are some that view this as an "aspect" of Afrikan culture, when in fact, if IS Afrikan culture. In this failed logic, some detach this from "other" "aspects" of Afrikan culture. Some even come into this not thinking it is attached to "that" Afrikan culture anymore.

If a person doesnt allow their spiritual intution, Ori, to lead them they will be closed off and resistant to a lot of the truth. Even a devotee can be closed off. They can choose which messages to listen to. Some people opt to not listen to the Ancestors when they ask us to look to Afrika.

Warrior Princess · #5 (**permalink**) 11-11-2005

Very interesting questions... This thread would also be very useful in the Spirituality Forum. I noticed that in the title, you specifically sought out Practitioners of Afrikan Spirituality... You would probably get more of them if you put it in that forum as well, as some probably do not really check any other discussion rooms than that one on a regular basis.

At any rate, slavery (and colonialism, as it was also mentioned) really did our minds, bodies, spirits, and souls a sharp and enduring blow. Our ancestors all over were traumitized and mentally/spiritually strangled so badly until often merely mentioning Africa or anything that looked, felt, sounded like it (and brought to their attention) was enough to make them go the other way. Of course the connections seem beyond obvious, but when a person (group of people) has been conditioned to feel that the roots are rotten, they refuse to have anything to with the roots. However, when they take the branches, they are still taking the same tree, which is held together by the same roots that they'll "have no parts" of.

And it's something, because I have sometimes wondered if people really fail to make the connections or if they refuse to acknowledge the connections because acknowledging the connections = acknowledging the roots and acknowledging the roots= acknowledging the (SAME) tree. The same questions can be asked for those who see little or no connection whatsoever between the spiritual phenomena of what is called "Black Christianity" and what is called ATR/Afrikan spirituality. When one knows even a little about both, the two are easily comparable. The same is the case for the things you mentioned. Often the events are the same, just taking place under different names...

*Edit*

On another note,
Think of how often the theme of "divide and conquer" comes into play. Having little or nothing in common = no threat, but having much/everything in common= strength. If the scattered pieces of the puzzle believe that they are simply pieces of of a different puzzle, why would they try to come together? However, if the little pieces congregate, they can complete the puzzle. The pieces have been told that are "different"; that they do not "fit" together. Many of the pieces believed it and continue to believe it and so they see no interest/signifcance in getting with the other pieces and they tell their little children pieces the same and so the little children pieces continue the same pattern (until/unless they break it and acknowledge the fact that they belong to the same puzzle as do the other displaced pieces)...

Kweku_Omowale · #6 (**permalink**) 11-11-2005

it is time to

clean up all da mess isnt it,look like haitians need to wake up,dont they kentake, it saddens me to see the sad state of affairs that our brothers and sisters are in,in brazil,afrikan brazilians,be helping yts to get rich,meanwhile, most of the people in the tradition still lives in the slums,we as people,specially in brazil,all of our orisas images are afrikans all the way, please check this website from brazil,it is in portuguese,any question i will answer dem, www.orixas.com.br tell me if works,look for the orisas images,kentake you are bean of light

odo bi bakoye! peace and oneness

Akyeame Kwame · #7 (**permalink**) 11-11-2005

Maaha ne Mo ne Obubuo bosome asafo abodin foforo a wo nsa kaee!

Good afternoon and congratulations on your new title of November's warrior of the month!

This is a very good and very deep question that you've asked. based on my experiences a lot of it is due to a question of power and agency.
meaning, if they say it is haitian, brazilian, whatever, they create a situation where do not have to look to Afrika for "authenticity" nor do they need need to consult continental Afrikans for what is in their best (or worst) interests.

you have either extreme of those who just make up their own stuff from outer space and thin air to those who accept anything that a continental Afrikan says or does is "tradition" and to be followed..then you have those who fall somewhere in between.

i've never been on the side of those who are down for creating something out of thin air loosely based or not based at all on any tradition (i won't name names here but WE should have an idea of who these are) but i have been on the more traditional side of things where i have looked to Afrika and continental Afrikan preservers of tradition for my cue. i moved further from this when i couldn't reconcile certain things with the liberation of Afrikan people (a big part of why i looked to Afrikan spirituality in the first place): like the use of european liquors as demanded by Afrikan spiritual entities...this same liquor that was used to sell US into enslavement, beads that were made by europeans that were used for the same purpose, things that are called traditional but could not have an origin before the european onslaught and have historically and contemporarily hurt Our people (spiritually, psychologically, economically, physically, healthwise, etc.).

in the diaspora and now more and more widely imported on the continent WE find the use of "florida water" containing a known carcinogen color dye but is demanded by spiritual practitioners who in turn tell US it is demanded by spiritual energies...at some point i had to shift my evaluative criteria from what i find continental Afrikans or continental Afrikan spiritual entities doing or demanding, calling that traditional and what is to be followed unconditionally and unquestioningly.

in certain cases that would be running from one white/a-rab enslaver only to be redirected to those same enemies for "spiritual" trinkets that Our enemies provide. it would be ridiculous to go to a spiritual entity for assistance to get free when at the same time they are sending me to the very same enemy just to evoke their energies. somethin' got to give.

on the other end of the spectrum you find those who take little to no cue from Afrika, Afrikan traditions, Afrikan worldview, those who have been preserving a great deal of Our way on the continent, etc. i think a lot of this has to do with wanting to look at their own environment and determine what they need and want from a spiritual system based on that. at its worst (most unbalanced) you find an utterly disconnected made up concocted piece of mumbo-jumbo and an inauthentic unvalidatable mess. a few steps from that you find those you are describing who have a preserved tradition but who renounce ties to their source in exchange for some level of "self-determination". in that "since this is a "Haitian" spiritual practice and i'm "Haitian" i am the authority on it and i don't need to look elsewhere for the correct way to do it." thus they misdirectedly cut themselves off to a whole world of knowledge and spiritual guidance. i think beyond what has already been discussed about general self-hatred in the form of anything that is Afrikan is "bad", there is this side issue of power and agency and determination that should be factored in. i see a similar thing in Brasil with Capoeira who call it Afro-Brasilian rather than Afrikan b/c they foolishly believe that if they called it Afrikan, they would necessarily have to look to continental Afrikans and couldn't have no say as the "authentic" practitioners and knowers.

unfortunately they do not know that no matter where WE are, WE are still Afrikans whether WE are in Brasil, India, West Papua, amerikkka, etc. as Warrior Princess reminded US, Lu bant yÃ*gg-yÃ*gg ci ndox, du tax mu soppaliku mukk jasig- Even if a log soaks a long time in water, it will never become a crocodile. no matter where WE are WE are Afrikans...just as Our continental (and diasporan, though under vastly different Maafic conditions) ancestors and spiritual energies chose to incorporate various elements after the beginning of the krakkka-rab onslaught (as self-directed or otherwise), because WE are also Afrikans WE can decide whether or not these additions or original elements that together WE recieve as tradition are consistent with Our goal of Total Liberation of Afrikan people throughout space and Time and act accordingly, because "even what the continental Afrikans did must come under scrutiny."

besides all that, some folk are just brainwashed and hate Afrika and Afrikans (themselves and others).

stay BlackNificent!

AK

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kentake

Hotep family!,
I have a serious question to ask the bros. and sistahs on this site who are active practitioners of Afreekan spirituality

(or are atleast aware of the spiritual systems of the faith(s) that are based in the diaspora and the continent 2), what do you all think of Afreekans born in the diaspora (haitians,trinidadians,cubans,brazilians etc.etc.) who practice vodun, candomble,santeria and DO NOT consider themselves Afreekans or have no love or awareness of their Afreekan history or existence?? i know of many practitioners of Afreekan spirituality (based in the diaspora context however) who are open about their belief system and practices but who abhor being called Afreekan!

some of them even scorn the thought of being called an Afreekan desendant!!

i find this very very bizarre, because all of the orishas/lwas/obosom that are called upon and venerated are without a doubt Afreekan in origin!

I had (past tense!) a close friend from trinidad who was deeply involved in the Shango Baptist faith and many of the members of the comm. were very adamant about denying &/or insulting their Afreekan ancestors and the contributions they made to shaping civilization in general! many of the members of this comm. found it odd and wierd that i considered myself an Afree-kan of the diaspora and they even told my x-friend that they thought something was wrong with me....to make a VERY LONG story short...we are no longer friends because she herself made many many insulting remarks towards me concerning my devotion to pan-afreekanism and nation-building, she would so often say to me "well you are not afreekan yunno? and they do not like us anyway so WHY ARE YOU TRYING TO BE LIKE THEM?? " whenever i would go out and proudly wear my afree-kan attire she would say "why are you dressing like an afreekan? you are a jamaican! are you not proud of being a jamaican?" so PUSH CAME TO SHOVE and i was FORCED to cut her out of my life....FOR THE BETTER!! NOW I NO LONGER HAVE TO HEAR THAT NONSENSE ANYMORE!! this is the same sistah that would have "prayers" at her house and call on the orishas for guidance and protection, the same one who says i am trying to be Afreekan? i just don't get it!!??

Then to continue....there is a mystical store here in Montreal owned by a trinidadian, he is also Shango Baptist and he sells candles, floorwashes, oils, herbs etc.he also cringes whenever he hears me discuss our Afreekan inheritance and even though he never says it i can see in his face that he is confused when he sees me in my West-Afreekan attire, he knows that i changed my name to Kentake (when i went to Ghana) and he has expressed to me in the past that he finds it odd that i would want to change my name...basically he also shares no bond with the Motherland even though he claims to be a practitioner of a faith which is based in the West-Afreekan Yoruba/Ewe/Fon tradition! i just don't get it? DO YOU??

To add to everything...the spiritual family to which i belong (Vodun/Haiti) also find that my love for my Afree-kan inheritance is somehow based in my own hallucinations!! they practice Vodun with the thought that it is strictly haitian in origin, i really do not see that they recognize it as an Afreekan spiritual system. i also have the unfortunate experience with some of the members of this spiritual comm. that i do not fit in due to the fact that i am not haitian, do not get me wrong they do not mis-treat me but i do feel odd some times due to the reality that i am treated differently as a non-haitian, that is A FACT!! i have told them on occasion that even though we derive from different caribbean nations we all OBVIOUSLY share the same Afreekan origins,

but it seems to me that their Afreekan inheritance is not important or valid to their existence, they are haitians first and foremost and Mama Afreeka is of much less importance than Mama Haiti, so can someone tell me WHY? DO THE VERY AFREE-KAN PPL WHO WERE ABLE TO PRESERVE THESE ANCIENT RITES AND TRADITIONS? WHY ARE THEY THE SAME ONES WHO DENY AND DOWNGRADE THEIR ANCESTRAL BOND WITH THEIR TRUE EXISTENCE? MAMA AFREEKA?

I would highly appreciate responses from those who are active practitioners of any Afreekan spiritual systems or those who are much aware of these systems(whether based in the continent or diaspora) since WE can better understand and actualize the reasons and CONSEQUENCES of this strange and bizarre type of mental slavery...it truly baffles me because i feel that the black ppl who are involved in these faiths SHOULD SURELY KNOW BETTER! i mean i do know of the effects of slavery and colonization

but i would like to hear from those who have more experience and know-how than i do. i await ur replies!! i am particularly interested in hearing what Elder/bro. Ifasehun and bro.Kwame have to say about this!

ASASE YE DURU=MAMA EARTH IS HEAVY!!!!

SANKOFA!,

Kentake.

Kweku_Omowale · #8 (**permalink**) 11-11-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jahness

Greetings Sister kentake!

You don't need advice you need to stop and acknowledge that these people do not associate themselves with Afrika for whatever reason. Unless you plan to return and interview all of them asking them to answer the question you want me to speculate about then it really serves no purpose.

These people can only speak for themselves. No one can interpret why the colonial mentality of these people are against or do not feel any connection to Afrika key word being colonial.

Another thing send some names and addresses of some of these people, or businesses and i will personally ask them the questions to help you get the answer if you so desire to further your research.

Living in a fantasy world is only good for Anancy cuz they have a story to tell. It is not good for Afrikans. All of us has to speak and tell the truth as we go about our daily business of living or existing, the choice is up to the person.

If we make up stories to make ourselves feel good or to also disassociate ourselves from the motherland or our Afrikan people then the shame is on us and no one else. No matter what people practice, especially Afrikan Traditional Sacred Siciences, that does not mean they are getting it right or doing things the correct way. They may call it shango baptist, Voodoo, Santeria, Yoruba orisha worship, Cadomble, Lucumi, Spiritual baptists etc. if they are disconnected from the source which is their Ancestors then something is missing.

I would say to you, do not waste your time and blessed energy trying to figure out why these people do what they do. Use you energy to find out more about and learn your Afrikan sacred sciences traditions. Re-Build you and your Afrikan connection first, enough time has been wasted doing otherwise by all of us.

Afrikan Traditional Sacred sciences are not about me, you or anyone else it is about connecting with your source and that is Afrika and our Ancestors. We all have to take spiritual responsibility for what we teach, practice and most of all speak about. Plenty people know things, but having the wisdom, knowledge and understanding about these things is a totally different matter.

Peace & Blessings!

openi fun olorun!

i give thanks to realm of the ancestors!

sister jahness knowledge plus wisdom equals power! thats so true ,you know,what ya just said, the sad thing,is that these people have the knowledge but dont have the wisdom, it explains why in haiti as kentake told me,all the images of the orisas are white,because the catholic church and its influence,ibn brazil,the images are afreekan!

Kentake · #9 (**permalink**) 11-11-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akyeame Kwame

Maaha ne Mo ne Obubuo bosome asafo abodin foforo a wo nsa kaee!

Good afternoon and congratulations on your new title of November's warrior of the month!

This is a very good and very deep question that you've asked. based on my experiences a lot of it is due to a question of power and agency.
meaning, if they say it is haitian, brazilian, whatever, they create a situation where do not have to look to Afrika for "authenticity" nor do they need need to consult continental Afrikans for what is in their best (or worst) interests.

you have either extreme of those who just make up their own stuff from outer space and thin air to those who accept anything that a continental Afrikan says or does is "tradition" and to be followed..then you have those who fall somewhere in between.

i've never been on the side of those who are down for creating something out of thin air loosely based or not based at all on any tradition (i won't name names here but WE should have an idea of who these are) but i have been on the more traditional side of things where i have looked to Afrika and continental Afrikan preservers of tradition for my cue. i moved further from this when i couldn't reconcile certain things with the liberation of Afrikan people (a big part of why i looked to Afrikan spirituality in the first place): like the use of european liquors as demanded by Afrikan spiritual entities...this same liquor that was used to sell US into enslavement, beads that were made by europeans that were used for the same purpose, things that are called traditional but could not have an origin before the european onslaught and have historically and contemporarily hurt Our people (spiritually, psychologically, economically, physically, healthwise, etc.).

in the diaspora and now more and more widely imported on the continent WE find the use of "florida water" containing a known carcinogen color dye but is demanded by spiritual practitioners who in turn tell US it is demanded by spiritual energies...at some point i had to shift my evaluative criteria from what i find continental Afrikans or continental Afrikan spiritual entities doing or demanding, calling that traditional and what is to be followed unconditionally and unquestioningly.

in certain cases that would be running from one white/a-rab enslaver only to be redirected to those same enemies for "spiritual" trinkets that Our enemies provide. it would be ridiculous to go to a spiritual entity for assistance to get free when at the same time they are sending me to the very same enemy just to evoke their energies. somethin' got to give.

on the other end of the spectrum you find those who take little to no cue from Afrika, Afrikan traditions, Afrikan worldview, those who have been preserving a great deal of Our way on the continent, etc. i think a lot of this has to do with wanting to look at their own environment and determine what they need and want from a spiritual system based on that. at its worst (most unbalanced) you find an utterly disconnected made up concocted piece of mumbo-jumbo and an inauthentic unvalidatable mess. a few steps from that you find those you are describing who have a preserved tradition but who renounce ties to their source in exchange for some level of "self-determination". in that "since this is a "Haitian" spiritual practice and i'm "Haitian" i am the authority on it and i don't need to look elsewhere for the correct way to do it." thus they misdirectedly cut themselves off to a whole world of knowledge and spiritual guidance. i think beyond what has already been discussed about general self-hatred in the form of anything that is Afrikan is "bad", there is this side issue of power and agency and determination that should be factored in. i see a similar thing in Brasil with Capoeira who call it Afro-Brasilian rather than Afrikan b/c they foolishly believe that if they called it Afrikan, they would necessarily have to look to continental Afrikans and couldn't have no say as the "authentic" practitioners and knowers.

unfortunately they do not know that no matter where WE are, WE are still Afrikans whether WE are in Brasil, India, West Papua, amerikkka, etc. as Warrior Princess reminded US, Lu bant yÃ*gg-yÃ*gg ci ndox, du tax mu soppaliku mukk jasig- Even if a log soaks a long time in water, it will never become a crocodile. no matter where WE are WE are Afrikans...just as Our continental (and diasporan, though under vastly different Maafic conditions) ancestors and spiritual energies chose to incorporate various elements after the beginning of the krakkka-rab onslaught (as self-directed or otherwise), because WE are also Afrikans WE can decide whether or not these additions or original elements that together WE recieve as tradition are consistent with Our goal of Total Liberation of Afrikan people throughout space and Time and act accordingly, because "even what the continental Afrikans did must come under scrutiny."

besides all that, some folk are just brainwashed and hate Afrika and Afrikans (themselves and others).

stay BlackNificent!

AK

Hotep family!,
YOU ARE ALWAYS BLACKNIFICENT BRO. KWAME!

I KNOW THERE IS A GREAT PROBLEM IN THE MINDSET OF THOSE WHO PRACTICE THE AFREEKAN SPIRITUAL TRADITION IN THE DIASPORA

BUT THAT DOES NOT CHANGE THE FACT THAT THEY ARE STILL HONOURING ORISHAS WHO ARE STRICTLY AFREEKAN IN ORIGIN AND MANY OF THE ELDERS KNOW THIS YET THEY DO NOT TELL THE YOUNGER GENERATION THE TRUTH ABOUT WHAT THEY ARE PRACTICING IN REALITY...THAT IS THE SHAME IN IT. I UNDERSTAND YOUR VIEWS ON THE USE OF FOREIGN OFFERINGS TO THE ORISHAS BUT AS A DEVOTEE OF VODUN

I HAVE AND PROBABLY WILL CONTINUE TO OFFER THESE GIFTS OF HONOUR TO MY ORISHAS BECAUSE THIS IS WHAT THEY ASK FOR...AFTER MY INITIATION I HAD CERTAIN RESP. TO MY ORISHAS

WHICH I HAVE SINCE COMPLETED...WHICH INCLUDED THE PURCHASE OF DIFF. FORMS OF ALCOHOL, PERFUMES ETC. ETC. BUT I CANNOT REFUSE TO GIVE MY ORISHAS WHAT THEY WANT! CAN I?? I DO UNDERSTAND YOUR POINT!, HOWEVER, WHATEVER THEY ASK ME FOR OR WHATEVER THEY WANT THEY WILL RECEIVE FROM ME...AS LONG AS IT IS NOT DESTRUCTIVE TO MY NATION IN ANYWAY AND AS LONG AS IT IS IN MY REACH! AFTER ALL MANY OF THE ORISHAS WHO ALSO DEMAND RUM OR ALCOHOL IN AFREEKA, CAN BE SUPPLICATED WITH PALM WINE OR AS THEY CALL ANOTHER FORM OF ALCOHOL IN GHANA ALSO APPITECHIE ETC. WE DO NOT HAVE THAT HERE, AND I ALSO BELIEVE THAT DUE TO OUR ENSLAVEMENT

IT COULD BE POSSIBLE THAT THE ORISHAS ASK US FOR THINGS THAT RELATE TO OUR JOURNEY AND EXPERIENCE HERE!! AS I WITNESSED IN GHANA AND ALSO HERE THERE ARE SOME ORISHAS THAT EVEN SMOKE CIGARETTES!! I CANNOT EXPLAIN EVERYTHING!

INDEED YOUR POST IS VERY ENLIGHTENING BRO. KWAME(as usual!!)-and CONCERNING THE USE OF FLORIDA WATER I DO USE IT, THERE IS ALSO A BRAND THAT COMES FROM JAMAICA TOO, IT IS HELPFUL TO ME IN MY SPIRITUAL WORK

AND I CANNOT SAY THAT IT IS OF NO USE TO ME IN SERVICE TO THE SPIRITUAL WORLD-I USE IT AND IT WORKS FOR ME! DO YOU THINK THAT AS AFREEKAN SPIRITUALISTS WE SHOULD NOT USE FLORIDA WATER? DID YOU KNOW THAT IN VODUN ETC. WHEN ERZULIE DANTOR

COMES IN CEREMONY SHE DRINKS AND USES FLORIDA WATER TO ANOINT HER CHILDREN ?? AND ALSO THOSE WHO WORK WITH HER MUST HAVE A BOTTLE IN THEIR HOME OR IN THEIR ARMOIRE("HOME" TO THE ORISHAS)? I AM JUST TELLING YOU THIS SO YOU SEE MY POINT A LIL BIT HERE- I FEEL YOU TRUST ME! BUT THE ORISHAS USE ALL OF THE OFFERINGS YOU MENTIONED EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE FOREIGN...SO THAT OBVIOUSLY MEANS THEY ACCEPT THE OFFERINGS AND THEY ALSO NEED IT IN ORDER TO BE SUMMONED AND HONOURED!!

I THINK YOU GET MY POINT AND I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR FROM YOU ON THIS AGAIN AS WELL.I DO USE FLORIDA AND IT SEEMS YOU KNOW ALOT ABOUT IT, YOU SAID IT IS MADE BY WHITEYS CAN YOU TELL ME A LIL BIT ABOUT THE HSITORY OF ITS USE? I USE IT SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE I WAS TAUGHT BY MY SPIRITUAL ELDERS/FAMILY AND IT WORKS FOR ME AND ALSO THE ORISHAS THAT I WORK WITH USE IT TOO.

note: NUFF RESPECT! EVERYTIME!! BRO. KWEKU OMOWALE !

SANKOFA!,

Sistah Kentake.

Akyeame Kwame · #10 (**permalink**) 11-12-2005

htp Sis Kentake!

you are always BlackNificent 2 Sis. Kentake.

i'll give you the example of my mother. an OkOmfoO trained with Nana Abass in Medoma Ghana and subsequently with Onipa Abusua in NY, Nana Dinizulu, who along with HRH Oba Oseijeman Adefunmi I were two of the major pioneers in Our reclamation of Afrikan spirituality in the Akan and Yoruba systems in particular.

i am her Okyeame (the intermediary between the OkOmfoO and the Afrikan who comes to consult) who is responsible for a wide array of tasks ensuring the flow of spiritual energy between realms.

One of the primary Obosom that my mother interacts with in spiritual work is Asuo Gyebi. Other practitioners of Afrikan spirituality use the enslaving artifacts aforementioned but because my mother is also committed to the Total Liberation she took the initiative to ask if she could replace the carcinogenic (physically and economically amongst other ways) florida water. because of asking and her request being accepted she has been taught by Nana Nsia, a daughter of Nana Oparebea, how Afrikans made cleansing water before the krakkka-arab onslaught. in doing so she has learned the flowers learned the herbs (that others don't know and won't learn because they take the easier way of depending on Our enemies). she has utilized the stream water from Asuo Abenaa that flows in Our backyard. her Afrika water is what i personally use in cleansing my Ancestor Altar etc.

why has she done this? because her spirituality must also be aligned with the Total Liberation of Afrikan People on all levels to the best of her ability.

There must be an open dialogue between the Abosom and the Afrikans who are devoted to them. as in "could WE use something else because what you have requested contributes to the demise of Afrikans psychologically, economically, spiritually, physically (healthwise) and/or culturally".

a problem is that WE don't know WE're Afrikan. i mean REALLY know. WE are caught up in a christian blind worship type thing. this is not how Our very own ancestors worked although their criteria may have been whether or not they lost a battle or whether the child is ever born successfully without being yanked back to the ancestral realm. WE must have a criteria based on the extent to which things are consistent with the Total Liberation of Afrikan People...in this goal ALL must be accountable...in both realms. WE are in an interdependent mutually beneficial (for Afrikan people and Afrikan Abosom) relationship. beneficial here entails more than on a personal level, it extends to the well-being of ALL Afrikans in both realms...throughout Space and Time.

Dr. Clarke (Nana Akwasi Agyeman) once said:
"Everything that touches your life must be an instrument of your liberation, or you must throw it into the trash can of history."

Dr. John Henrik Clarke

Nana, Mo ne kasa!

my first advice to you is to ASK...ask to do/provide something that is more consistent with the liberation of Afrikan people than vodka and cigars and florida water and all other manner of things that enrich (on every level) Our eternal enemies. stay BlackNificent!

AK